12 angles of attack

[pknox]

Hey all:

I study a combination of Inosanto blend Kali and Lacoste Escrima, which my instructor learned from both Guro Dan Inosanto and the late Punong Guro Edgar Sulite. In doing a Google search, I have noticed that the "12 angles of attack" we practice in class is a little different than the angles in other systems. In some systems I've seen a different number of total angles, as well as different angles themselves in the specific numbering system. Two questions regarding this:

1. Has anyone else ran into this in their style(s)? If so, how do practitioners from different styles communicate about the different angles (i.e. if my #1 is the same as your #6, what do we call it when we compare techniques)?

2. Has anyone seen either a book or any online info regarding the Inosanto/Lacoste system and its angles -- I'm not looking for videos right now, as I can get them from either my academy or Guro Dan's pretty easy. The only book I've seen is the one written a few years ago by Guro Dan that is now out of print. Has anyone seen anything else that they would recommend?

 

[arnisador]

There's been a lot of discussion of this issue on the FMA fora. Here's one link:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6370

 

[pknox]

Arinsador:

Thanks! Not only does that answer the first question of mine, but it gives me a whole new level of respect for the guys (and gals, of course) who train in two styles with different numbering systems simultaneously

How about the #2 question then? Does anyone have any recommendations?

 

[Cthulhu]

The book by Dan Inosanto can be found if you look hard enough, but be ready to pay through the nose for it. I was very lucky and got it pretty much for cover price at a used book store, not knowing what they had. I've seen it going on Internet used/rare book dealers for over $300.

As for other books, I don't know of any other books beside's Inosanto's that features the 'Inosanto/Lacoste Blend'. There are lots of good books on other systems and FMA in general, though. One prominent FMA author is Mark Wiley. Take a look at some of his stuff.

Cthulhu

 

[Guro Harold]

Cthulhu,

Are you talking about the 1979 book, "The Filipino Martial Arts"?

If so, then that would make me feel good, I have had it for years.

Palusut

 

[Cthulhu]

Yep, that's the one Palusut. I'm a bit surprised that it's never been reprinted. It'd probably be a best seller for the genre.

Cthulhu

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by pknox

2. Has anyone seen either a book or any online info regarding the Inosanto/Lacoste system and its angles -- I'm not looking for videos right now, as I can get them from either my academy or Guro Dan's pretty easy. The only book I've seen is the one written a few years ago by Guro Dan that is now out of print. Has anyone seen anything else that they would recommend?

As I understand it, Lacoste had several angling systems that he used (or maybe several variations on one set of angles), so it'd be pretty hard to pin down a definitive answer to that.

Mike

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cthulhu
Yep, that's the one Palusut. I'm a bit surprised that it's never been reprinted. It'd probably be a best seller for the genre.

Cthulhu

I believe (but don't know at all, pure conjecture on my part) that the choice to not have it reprinted has been Guro Dan's because it's been such a source of controversy in certain circles over the years.

Mike

 

[Master of Blades]

I study a Lacoste system of Kali and we have 23 angles lol. We teach 5 to begginers and the rest to the better students. :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
I study a Lacoste system of Kali and we have 23 angles lol. We teach 5 to begginers and the rest to the better students. :asian:

Yo Blades,


What you mean you have 23 angles, is that 12 right and 12 left, with one omitted?

You teach five at first, what are those five you are taught fist?

Thanks

 

[Master of Blades]

First 5 are just the two diagonal cuts downwards from the neck followed by the two belly cuts and then one poke. Its not exactly left and right because of Redondo and Abinnicho added in there (apoligise NOW for the spelling). :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
First 5 are just the two diagonal cuts downwards from the neck followed by the two belly cuts and then one poke. Its not exactly left and right because of Redondo and Abinnicho added in there (apoligise NOW for the spelling). :asian:

Ok, first five taught

Diagonal from the right side across the neck

Diagonal from the left side across the neck

Horizontal from the right side across the abdomen

Horizontal from the left side across the abdomen

and A thrust straight up the middle


Do I have it know?

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by Rich Parsons
Ok, first five taught

Diagonal from the right side across the neck

Diagonal from the left side across the neck

Horizontal from the right side across the abdomen

Horizontal from the left side across the abdomen

and A thrust straight up the middle


Do I have it know?

Yup......the rest of the angles are made up of Abinnicho and the first two Angles coming down on the thigh or up the inside of the thigh etc. There is also the same strikes to the abdomen but to the forehead :asian: Stop by if you ever go to London and I will happily get my dad to show you :asian:

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Master of Blades
Yup......the rest of the angles are made up of Abinnicho and the first two Angles coming down on the thigh or up the inside of the thigh etc. There is also the same strikes to the abdomen but to the forehead :asian: Stop by if you ever go to London and I will happily get my dad to show you :asian:

If I am in the neighborhood I wil let you know!

 

[moromoro]

the angles of attack are the most basic components in eskrima!
in many systems after a few weeks or a day even, you are no longer tought them...
some systems dont even have 12angles, where some have more, the areas (targets and there corresponding numbers) are different in most arts because of the founders preference....


thanks

terry

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by moromoro
the angles of attack are the most basic components in eskrima!
in many systems after a few weeks or a day even, you are no longer tought them...
some systems dont even have 12angles, where some have more, the areas (targets and there corresponding numbers) are different in most arts because of the founders preference....


thanks

terry

Terry,

We once had a student train for about 8 months and then leave. He figured he had it all since we would go back to the stricking angles again and again.

Years later, I saw him in another club of a different art, I was invited to visit. He asked me what I was doing? I replied Modern Arnis at the Flint Dojo. He said still, I mastered that years ago, why are you still there? What are you doing? I replied Still striking 1 -12 and other basics. I guess I am a slow learner.

Yes some people do not stay with the basics. Yet they are the building blocks for all other techniques or combincations, no matter what the art.

Just my opinion and experience.

:asian:

 

[pknox]

Excellent point, Rich.

:soapbox:

I've always found it interesting that people think they can "master" arts like kali/escrima/arnis, wing chun, or jun fan in such a short time, but would never think that way regarding the "traditional arts." Imagine how ridiculous that guy would have sounded if he had trained at a traditional karate dojo instead of an FMA one, and then said that he left after only learning the reverse punch and front kick, because he had "mastered" them and thus knew the whole art. Now imagine if the guy later criticized you for still using those techniques.

I wonder why people seem to do that in the more "modern" arts all the time, and other people don't seem to consider it as silly and call them out on it?

Just food for thought.