Zenjael's Self-Defense Methodologies

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by Zenjael, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    427
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    Hmm...thats the way it sounds to me. See, this is just one example, IMHO, of what mcdojos do. They scam people, they try to make people think they're actually getting quality training, when in reality, they're getting ripped off.
     
  2. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    427
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    And in a week...well, that doesn't amount to much.
     
  3. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    427
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    Yet, somehow, adding on another 6 months, will somehow make you better? Afterall, within a year, you should know it all right. LOL! FWIW, I call BS on that! There are no shortcuts....hard work, dedication, blood, sweat and tears!! THAT is what makes a martial artist.
     
  4. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2004
    Messages:
    3,578
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Metro ATL
    Personally... I'm calling BS on everything he has said or purported except some marginal TKD skills.

    There... it's been said.
     
  5. Zenjael

    Zenjael Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    355
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Fairfax Virginia
    If that is how many feel, then so be it. I find it interesting that the same reasons people are jumping down my throat are why I am leaving the orginization. The certificates I issued today list what I taught my students, Tang Soo Do and Moo Duk Kwan TKD, with Tang Soo Do elements oriented toward self-defense. The organization I have been contracting for, has changed from teaching only Tang Soo Do, to include Kempo. This being the case, they switched from a previous series of kata, to a new set, being the IKCA Master Form. I have not spent 'only a week' on the form; I have learned the movements in that span of time, but it took much longer before I began instructing it. As the two locations I operated out of only consisted of initiate level martial artists, The only movements I was able to instruct the students in, anyway, with them learning it reasonably, was the first 6 movements to orange belt, and 7 to those training for their green belt. I also instructed in the forms of Moo Duk Kwan, though did not make it past what I learned at yellow belt.

    It would be impossible to. I would like to think that for every dan a person is issued, the certificate behind it is something recognized, and made legal by the federation, so at least publicly there is less risk of scams such as this. However, it is not the case that we train people in a style we do not know. Kaizen Karate teaches Kempo, I am contracted under them to teach what I have learned, in addition to what they teach.

    What Kempo I instruct is for initiate and basic level, and I rely far more heavily on the fact that the Kempo they teach bears (in execution) great simularity to those techniques found in Chung Do Kwan.

    If people think I am a fraud, that is alright. At 22 I am young to teach in anything, and I would prefer, no matter how much I would like to teach, to train toward joining the military as I am now. When I am 30, or 35 and have done the art for 3 decades, maybe then it will be time for me to open my doors.

    I have been in complete agreement with all of you except the accusations toward the integrity of my character, and who I am as a person. I have never 'scammed' anyone I have taught, and you will find a long list of people in NOVA who would support me in who I am, and what I teach. I have had the misfortune to being enthusiastic about teaching, when it had been years since I had done so, and missed the role of being head instructor, in teaching. I figured, as a student, Kaizen would offer the chance to both offer what I knew, and make money on the side in the difficult economy. It took me a year, but I finally have been forced to admit that I do not enjoy teaching under the conditions Kaizen has given me, nor teaching a form of karate I am unfamiliar with, even if I am specifically teaching in other styles mainly.

    1 hour a week, is never enough for anyone to amount to anything, in anything, in my opinion. It is enough to poke a toe in the water, and see if they enjoy the experience, and I try in teaching that the lessons both be practical, but set the stones in place for those later to come and instruct them in my stead, when I move on. I am happy that the children I work with have found themselves enjoying what I have taught, and that it may, eventually, should they stop, lead to them coming back to the art.

    For those I teach, and train with at NOVA, I find it much more condusive. There we meet several times a week, usually for up to 3 hours, where we train, share, and give each other due respect. I have found a place in instructing there, though being a head instructor a club with our orientation means, by no means, that I am the only one there who amounts to that title, and I am much happier to let others lead when given the occasion.

    I concur. But you also seem to disregard any training I've had that style as not pertaining, utility wise, beneficially toward assisting in learning that art. When you hear kempo, you do not see how their elbow is no different than that in Krav Maga, or their sword hand like the knife-hand in Chung Do Kwan, or sword hand of Shotokan. There are elements in styles which run deep, across each of them. In many ways we are all mixed martial artists, in that few martial arts had roots which grew independently of any other art's.

    If thought a fraud, so be it. But I know I am not, my history stands behind me that I am not, and ultimately the accusations are hollow, as everyone has seemingly ignored the fact that I am leaving the teaching element of the school, and opting to focus on myself for the time being regardless.Iro

    Ironically, I said what all of you have, before you said it.

    It would be impossible to. My teaching method is this; if I know how to mechanically perform a technique or movement, can employ it, can explain how and when it is used, and how it can be countered... then I consider it something I can teach another. With one exception I have found being to this case, and it was a technique I created, rather than I had learned, I cannot seem to teach.

    Look, I am not as y'all think me. For the first semester of working for the company, I paid for the exams of my students, waving their fee. In fact, that first semester there were no exams, as I will not promote off of 8 hours worth of training. I am contracted not to teach Kempo, or karate, or TKD. I teach what has been approved to be, by who I am contracted by.

    Not every person who has been swept up in programs like this are bad people, and as I found my self detesting at two before, I have found myself detesting teaching for a 3rd mcdojo. I miss the days of Master Khan, because he was a man who knew how to lead, teach, and perform, and he created a family over hundreds of students I can only hope to approach. I have taught for good schools, and bad. I have found it a great pleasure, and sorrow when I have had to move on from those schools, and at the latter, I like to think that even if a mcdojo, even if their other teachers are poor, it is reason enough for me to teach what I can, salvage where I can, and improve before moving on.

    Im 22 and can do only do so much, and who knows where I will end up in time. You will find if you pursued it, that my background is much better than I've given credit for, both by responsibility from me, but also my parents.

    Plus, any are always welcome to join us for practice in NOVA to see for themself my integrity. They will not find it lack in either me, my ability, or where I train.
     
  6. oaktree

    oaktree Master of Arts

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    264
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Under an Oaktree
    Hi Zenjael I just wanted to say something on your comment:

    I have been training with my current teacher for about 5 years now. I train 1 hour a week with him privately due to distances from each other and what ever else.
    In the last 5 years I have learned 8 palm Bagua, 8 stake Bagua, 8 animal form, 5 element Xingyiquan, and Chen Laojia. We spend time on fixing any thing that needs corrections, and if my form looks good I learn the next sequence. Depending on the dedication of the student and how well the realtionship of student and teacher will determine how well a student will be able to learn the material. For me I only learn privately which is more expensive but the quality IMO is worth it over class time in which I feel I do not get the attention and correction I need practicing the internal arts.
     
  7. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,172
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Not BC, Not DC
    Zenjael,

    You will be hard-pressed to convince anyone here that your testing people's abilities in one style and ranking them in another is an acceptable practice under ANY circumstances. It is, in fact, unconscionable. Please seek the advice of some older, more seasoned and ... perhaps less celebrated martial artists.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. ballen0351

    ballen0351 Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    10,331
    Likes Received:
    953
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Maybe it is your writing style or our not clearly expressing what your trying to say. Reading your posts at least to me it seem as your saying you trained for 1 week learned the master form in Kenpo and are now being paid to teach Kenpo. Then you say your grading people in Kenpo using Tang Soo Do criteria for your Kenpo gradings.

    This makes it sould like your teaching Tang soo Do woth a little Kenpo mixed in where other times you stated your teaching Kenpo and they no longer want Tang Soo Do taught so you can see the confusion.

    Thats not what you said the frst time. And again I ask how does only knowing 1 form from a system then allow you to feel you can be teaching the system? Also are you ranked at all in Kenpo?

    So what happens when your students all get to orange or green you cant teach them anymore? The school is over?

    Why on earth as a yellow belt do you feel you have the ability to teach Moo Duk Kwan. Thes the main problem I think people have with your posts. You have a VERY limited amount of training in a LARGE number of different arts. You claim 20 years exp. Yet you claim 15 dif arts or more so you got on average little over a year per art. Nobody should be teaching anything with that amount of training.



    But having a dan ranking in one art does not mean you can teach ANY art and thats how I read your posts that because your a TaeKwon Do black belt you now thing you can teach any art out there. That may not be your intent but thats how I read it.

    If I sign up to learn Kenpo then I dont want to learn YOUR interpretation of Kenpo/Chung Do Kwan I want to learn traditional Kenpo. I study Okinawan Goju Ryu I expect to be able to walk into any other Okinawan Goju Ryu Dojo and at least have some idea whats going on. If I was taught what was claimed to be Okinawan Goju flavored with some other art that would not be the case. If the only way you know how to teach Kempo is by using Chung Do Kwan then dont call it Kempo or dont teach it.

    I dont believe you being 22 is the problem its you acting like a 22 year old. When I was 22 I had completed 4 year of the Marine Corps got out and was a Police Officer working the streets. I didnt need to come on to Martial Arts forums trying to tell people how great I was.

    Sadly you have scammed people and by the sounds of it you still are I dont believe it was intentional I think you really believe the stuff you say and Im sorry but your not qualified to be teaching some of the arts you teach. You may be qualified to teach TKD I dont know but if you are stick to that. NOVA/DC has a ton of TKD schools you can find employment in and not need to be trying to teach an art you shouldnt be teaching.


    You may have discovered you dont like teaching it because you dont know what your teaching. If your goal is to open your own school some day then pick 1 or 2 arts and learn them and stick to teaching them.

    Im glad you enjoy teaching you should stick with it but stick to an art you know well.

    Your not being paid to teach Krav Maga your being paid to teach Kenpo. To say of well an elbow is an elbow means you dont know enough about either art to see the difference.
    I think in this case thats the best thing for you.


    Thats not what you said at first you claim to be paid to teach Kempo. Now you have been called out on it now you paid to teach well nothing really just a bunch of parts and no real art or system.

    Im sure you a cool dude but coming onto a martial art forum with people that have had their own schools longer then you have been alive and bragging about how awsome you are is not a great first impression.

    Im not far from you maybe ill join you some day sounds fun.
     
  9. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    30,705
    Likes Received:
    4,935
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    I was going to stay out of this train wreck of a post but I have to add something as it applies to training in CMA, which obviously Zenjael has none of. Oaktree’s experience with a CMA sifu is not uncommon even for the more Modern CMA stuff. One of my teachers I would meet about once a week and do tuishou but he would show me a techniques or two, tell me to go work on it and then the next time we meant ask me to show him. If it was good I was shown more... if it was bad...he told me it was terrible and to go work on it some more. The majority of CMA training is done all by yourself and you better damn well train it that way if you want to learn anything from a sifu who has more traditional views of things CMA. And of course there is always learning by getting your butt kicked too… guys from and trained in China can be like that when they want to teach you something

    Zenjael you have a lot to learn, most of which hopefully comes with age and maturity (as Bill already mentioned). And I pretty much said this in another post to you but… there are a lot of people here on MT who have been at this a lot longer than you and some of those have experience (I am sure they wish they didn't have) in very nasty situations and places.

    Nuff said by this Martial Arts Dinosaur... and the train kept a rollin'
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,172
    Likes Received:
    461
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Not BC, Not DC
    But wouldn't you say that once-per-week training works better with a committed adult than a child? My experience is that even adults are hard-pressed to practice regularly on their own outside of the training hall and children do what's right in front of them most of the time.
     
  11. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2006
    Messages:
    30,705
    Likes Received:
    4,935
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    North American Tectonic Plate
    Yup, but then it depends on the age of the child and the goal of the child or the child's parent as it applies to MA.

    Example, and for the record; I would not allow my child to train like I did or the style I trained with the sifu I mentioned in the above post.
     
  12. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2008
    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes Received:
    210
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Nacogdoches, Tx
    i will not let myself get engaged in this

    i will not let myself get engaged in this

    i will not let myself...........
     
  13. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
    We've had Chris Parker's spot on bit-by-bit analysis. We've had shesulsa's common sense. On another thread, we had my own feeble attempt at reason. We've had something like 300 years cumulative experience in martial arts disagreeing with almost everything this young man has to say. If he's not a troll-and, based on his video and facebook page, I don't think he is-then his posts indicate something is lacking. All other methods aside, it is now time for elder999's default internet defense. In an effort to keep TwinFist from saying something he will regret, we will now commence with general derision and ridicule.:lfao:
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  14. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!
    View attachment $maturitydemotivator.jpg
     
  15. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    USA
    Lurking, but I honestly don't know what to say or how to react to all of this.. . Only reaffirms that I am not ready to be an MT Mentor like Bill.. . Great replies by Chris and Shesulsa too!

    In regards to the OP, I am interested in what Zenjael thinks a knife attack to look like? IMO, there's demonstration stuff, movie stuff, and then there's reality.. . **refer to post #93**

    Maybe it's my lack of expertise.. . But I'm not sure where there would be a situation/scenerio you would even have the opportunity to disarm a knife with a kick even if you were "brave" enough to wish to do so.. .

    We knife spar in my black belt classes occasionally, and I assure you we have very skilled kickers. However, none of them have ever "survived" the match kicking at the knife.
     
  16. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Messages:
    9,875
    Likes Received:
    1,388
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Where the hills have eyes.,and it's HOT!

    Probably nothing like this:



    And a lot like this:

    :lfao:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  17. SahBumNimRush

    SahBumNimRush Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Location:
    USA
    This is what we train for in my school:



    This is what I typically see from many other TKD schools (which look great as a demonstration, but not at all realistic):



    I have a friend who trains in Pukulan Cimande, who I knife spar with from time to time (I hope I never come up against a knife attacker that has skills like my friend):

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  18. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,809
    Likes Received:
    4,303
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Zenjael - I think there may be a bit of a misunderstanding. You seem to think the people on this board are dismissing your abilities and opinions because of your age. That's not the case. We're dismissing your abilities and opinions because we watched your video and we read your posts. Many of us have sufficient experience to a) judge the limits of your sparring skills from watching the videos and b) understand that many of the things you seem to believe about the martial arts are just not even close to true.*

    The comments about your age are largely intended to give you an excuse for not knowing better. If you were 42 years old and showed up here claiming to have 20 years of martial arts training but demonstrating the attitude and lack of understanding that you have so far, you would be regarded as an idiot or a fraud and there would be no excuses offered. Since many of us can remember silly things that we did or believed when we were your age, folks are being a bit more patient with you.

    * Just one example out of many - when asked how many people you knew who had broken someone's arm with a crescent kick, you replied:
    I've practiced Muay Thai for well over 2 years, including a couple of fights in the ring, and I've never broken anyone's arm with a kick. None of my training partners have either. I've watched hundreds of MMA and Muay Thai fights, where top professional fighters were doing their best to damage their opponents. In those fights, I'd say that no more than 1 in 1000 kicks resulted in a broken arm.

    Your posts are full of this sort of misinformation and those of us who have been training for decades as adults can recognize it.

    I think a lot of the problem comes down to your idea that you can learn 100 techniques from a new system in the space of a month. If you have a good memory, you may be able to memorize how to wave your hands around in an imitation of what you think those 100 techniques look like, but that doesn't mean you've learned them. Learning a martial arts technique means at the very least that you have internalized the ability to use it effectively under fire. Ideally it means that in addition to being able to use the technique, you also understand the principles and details that make it work. I guarantee that you can't do that with 100 new techniques from a new system in a month. I'm not talking about mastering a technique - that can take a lifetime. I'm just talking about learning. Based on what you've said and demonstrated, I think it's pretty clear that there is a lot you think you've learned even though you really haven't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    427
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    Yes, there are front kicks, straight punches, knife hand strikes, among many others, in numerous arts. However, the application will most likely vary, though it may be slight, its still a difference. That said, if you're going to teach, IMO, the students should know what it is they're learning. For example...I've taught some Arnis techs in my Kenpo class. However, I'd always make it clear that it was Arnis, NOT Kenpo, that they were doing, at that time. Give credit where credit is due.
     
  20. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    427
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    Some damn good replies from alot of people here. This thread is on the same path as that one in the Kenpo section. TF knows what I'm talking about! LOL! Anyways...to say a few things:

    Zenjael,

    Age does play a part to a point. I've been training/teaching for a long time. I've had to deal with people in my classes, who're just like you...people of all ages, that think they have all the answers. What I'm amazed at is...the learning shouldn't stop, therefore, how can anyone have all the answers? You came on here, asked questions, and got replies. I'm sure you didn't like everything that you heard. There are many knowledgeable people on here, and many tend to call it like they see it, no sugar coating. If something is good, I'll say so. If it sucks, I'll say so.

    I think that alot of the time, people tend to believe everything that they hear. People go to a dojo, and its almost like a cult like mentality. There are alot of ******** places out there, and sadly, I think alot of people fall into the trap of believing everything they hear. Things such as breaking bones with strikes, hurting people with various strikes, come on man. This isn't fantasy land here.

    Like I said earlier...you ask for feedback and opinion, you get it, but sadly, I think you're not following the good advice you're getting.

    I wish you well in your journey.123
     

Share This Page