Your Art on Screen: Help or Hindrance?

[MartialIntent]

When you think of how your art [and the arts in general] is portrayed in cinema and on the small screen, do you perceive it as a benefit to the art or an unwelcome distraction?

I'm referring to the whole gamut of MA on TV and in cinemas - everything from the classics: Seven Samurai and the retro: David Carridine in Kung Fu through the movie iconsL Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal et al to the commercial: UFC, K-1 and into sport: TKD and Judo on the Olympic big screen...

Does what people see on their screen enhance what comes into your arts and schools or take away from them? I believe many are brought to the arts on these media vehicles though I have talked to several who do it seems have slightly unrealistic expectations as a result.

Interested in your opinions.

Respects!

 

[Cirdan]

Since cinema has been a huge factor in the spreading of MA I guess I can`t blame them if a few kids out there believes in fire breathing karate masters and so forth. Most of them grow up anyway.

It would be interesting to hear a Ninjutsu practicioner`s opinion..

 

[bydand]

Ninjutsu here, OMG don't get me started! LOL

It is a two edged sword really, on one hand all the movies tend to get people interested in trying the "Ninja" stuff; so interest in the art grows; On the other hand it is NOTHING like the movies (still waiting for my flying lesson, not to mention invisibility you know) and once they see it is long and dedicated training just like the other MA's, they tend to leave. Also for some reason it tends to attract some "different" individuals shall we say.

Overall I would have to say it is a hindrance to the art. I am sure it is not unique to Ninjutsu and every person who trains and loves their particular art cringes when that art shows up on the "Big Screen" or even the TV because you really never do know how it is going to be shown.

 

[Grenadier]

I have mixed feelings on this.

There's no doubt that the martial arts, in general, became a lot more popular once the silver screen put forth many portrayals. There were some martial artists the likes of Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, and Jet Li, that could entertain the crowds. Yes, even some of the notorious folks the likes of Jean-Claude Van Damme...

This exposure has helped pique the interest in many an individual, and I've often taken the view that one of the greatest obstacles to someone becoming a martial artist, is getting them to seek out training in the first place. If the folks in Hollywood were able to help some people overcome the initial resistance to training, it can't be all bad.

On the flip side of the coin, yes, such movies can create some unrealistic expectations in some people. Of course this isn't a good thing, since some folks might pack up and leave once they find out that they can't smash their fists through 12 inches of concrete, or be able to perform a jumping spinning kick to someone's head.

However, it still boils down to the individual person being able to cope with reality. If they can't cope with it in the martial arts world, then they're going to have problems coping with other things in their lives.

In addition to the silver screen, though, the boom of the internet in the last dozen years has created another avenue in which martial arts can, and are, portrayed. Some sites are great, some are mediocre, while others, such as the one put forth by one of our "favorite" neo-ninjas (a certain individual named Radford) are just plain detrimental to the martial arts, in general...

 

[Adept]

I was embarrased to watch the olympic TKD. If a persons whole opinion of TKD is formed from watching the olympics, then I feel a travesty has occured.

 

[MartialIntent]

Overall I would have to say it is a hindrance to the art. I am sure it is not unique to Ninjutsu and every person who trains and loves their particular art cringes when that art shows up on the "Big Screen" or even the TV because you really never do know how it is going to be shown.

I'd have to agree. Having done a little research into [and a very little practise] of your art I have to say it's a fantastically diverse, powerful, intelligent and structured ancient art.

Considering all that, it's ironic that Ninjutsu is possibly one of the most badly portrayed arts on screen and is almost drowned in incessant and insidious cliches and stereotypes that have absolutely no relevance to this superb art.

I mean "Ninja" is almost a term of derision nowadays, the root-cause of which I believe has been initiated by the barrage of crass Ninja Turtle, Power Rangers [and all the other] nonsense that we feed our kids and potential young students. Yeah I know it's tongue-in-cheek but I can see how it would be hugely detrimental to genuine schools - a notion which commercial TV producers I daresay would be blithely indifferent to.

Good luck though with continuing practise in your art...

Respects!

 

[MartialIntent]

I was embarrased to watch the olympic TKD. If a persons whole opinion of TKD is formed from watching the olympics, then I feel a travesty has occured.

I think you're right - the 2004 Athens Olympics drew something like 4 billion viewers worldwide over the course of its competitions. It's got the sort of outreach to potential students that NO school could ever hope of achieving so only the one aspect of TKD / Judo is ever gonna get seen.

And I think while undoubtedly this attracts a raft of new students, it's only attracting those who wish to practise the competitive, Olympic standard version of the art, creating a vicious circle [or virtuous circle depending on how you see it!]

There may be many more students both young [and perhaps more pertinently older potential students] who might never see the other side of Taekwondo: the self-defense, confidence building, flexibility maintaining art. Shame, but what's a school to do? Do you have an opinion?

Respects!

 

[MartialIntent]

This exposure has helped pique the interest in many an individual, and I've often taken the view that one of the greatest obstacles to someone becoming a martial artist, is getting them to seek out training in the first place. If the folks in Hollywood were able to help some people overcome the initial resistance to training, it can't be all bad.

Good point. There's no doubt that ever since the Kung Fu / Karate flix of the 70s right through to the Matrix, Crouching Tiger and the others of recent years, there has undoubtedly been a steady stream of students citing movies and movie stars as being their motivation for joining the arts.

On the flip side of the coin, yes, such movies can create some unrealistic expectations in some people. Of course this isn't a good thing, since some folks might pack up and leave once they find out that they can't smash their fists through 12 inches of concrete, or be able to perform a jumping spinning kick to someone's head.

Maybe schools should set these targets for that first lesson? Only joking!
"First lesson free. Introductory techniques taught: punching through concrete, flying sidekick to the head etc."
I jest and entirely agree with your point.

In addition to the silver screen, though, the boom of the internet in the last dozen years has created another avenue in which martial arts can, and are, portrayed. Some sites are great, some are mediocre, while others, such as the one put forth by one of our "favorite" neo-ninjas (a certain individual named Radford) are just plain detrimental to the martial arts, in general...

I'd agree with you also on this point. There has been a huge injection of martial arts clips and videos onto the internet lately. For me, I'd have to say that good or bad, they are at least giving potential new students something to watch, some point of reference to compare to and some sense of knowing that the art they might be embarking upon doesn't really have methods for dodging bullets though it can certainly help you minimise damage in a knife attack or break a chokehold. Yay for good martial arts sites on the internet!

My question to you then is can producers [especially in the wake of the new waves of CGI movies] create a genuine - read "realistic" martial arts based movie that would satisfy modern audiences and generate sufficient box-office receipts? If so, what would that movie be like. And if not, how bad are they gonna get? Interested in your opinion.

Respects!

 

[Cryozombie]

Ninjutsu here, OMG don't get me started! LOL

Overall I would have to say it is a hindrance to the art. I am sure it is not unique to Ninjutsu and every person who trains and loves their particular art cringes when that art shows up on the "Big Screen" or even the TV because you really never do know how it is going to be shown.

Amen brotha... you beat me to it, but said pretty much what I would about the views of the Ninja/Ninjutsu.

I have to say I ENJOY cheesy ninja flicks, but damn...

 

[Adept]

My question to you then is can producers [especially in the wake of the new waves of CGI movies] create a genuine - read "realistic" martial arts based movie that would satisfy modern audiences and generate sufficient box-office receipts? If so, what would that movie be like. And if not, how bad are they gonna get? Interested in your opinion.

Respects!

Personally, while I love cheesy martial arts flicks (huge Bruce Lee fan) I would also love to see a movie where the fights look real, provided it was the whole package. It's definately do-able. The Bourne movies so far have been pretty good. The martial arts we see in those is fancy, but it fits the context of the films, looks totally functional and realistic to boot. The fight scene in the Bourne Identity in the apartment in paris is one of my favourite fight scenes in any movie.

There may be many more students both young [and perhaps more pertinently older potential students] who might never see the other side of Taekwondo: the self-defense, confidence building, flexibility maintaining art. Shame, but what's a school to do? Do you have an opinion?

To me, the impact isn't so much on schools. Most schools will always have a market for what they offer, and the discerning potential student will almost always find what they are after. The impact to me is, when I tell people I do TKD or have a TKD background, that they immediately class me as one of those no-guard, bouncing, leg flipping numpties from the olympics, when the TKD I do is so far removed from that as to be a completely seperate art. People form an opinion about me from what they know about TKD, and all they really know about it is what they saw on the telly. It's not something I lose sleep over, but it's still irritating.

 

[DeLamar.J]

When you think of how your art [and the arts in general] is portrayed in cinema and on the small screen, do you perceive it as a benefit to the art or an unwelcome distraction?

I'm referring to the whole gamut of MA on TV and in cinemas - everything from the classics: Seven Samurai and the retro: David Carridine in Kung Fu through the movie iconsL Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal et al to the commercial: UFC, K-1 and into sport: TKD and Judo on the Olympic big screen...

Does what people see on their screen enhance what comes into your arts and schools or take away from them? I believe many are brought to the arts on these media vehicles though I have talked to several who do it seems have slightly unrealistic expectations as a result.

Interested in your opinions.

Respects!

The media will do what they want, and the masses will buy into it everytime. The truth however, is known only by those who are there training.

 

[MartialIntent]

The media will do what they want, and the masses will buy into it everytime. The truth however, is known only by those who are there training.

In which case, have you any desire to "awaken the masses" to the truth? Or are you happy for them to exist in ignorance?

Respects!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Amen brotha... you beat me to it, but said pretty much what I would about the views of the Ninja/Ninjutsu.

I have to say I ENJOY cheesy ninja flicks, but damn...

While I enjoy a good suspend your belief movie just like anyone else, I think that the FMA's in the movies are nice to see, but I also think it gives a perception that everyone is a knife carrying killer, or worse yet can only defend yourself with two sticks in a predetermined pattern.

 

[MartialIntent]

Personally, while I love cheesy martial arts flicks (huge Bruce Lee fan) I would also love to see a movie where the fights look real, provided it was the whole package. It's definately do-able. The Bourne movies so far have been pretty good. The martial arts we see in those is fancy, but it fits the context of the films, looks totally functional and realistic to boot. The fight scene in the Bourne Identity in the apartment in paris is one of my favourite fight scenes in any movie.

Agree totally, one of my favorites of recent times because of the believability of the fight scenes [Transporter II also]. Hollywood obviously feels little compunction at constructing un-believable martial arts scenes. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Keanu as Neo but in comparison with Bourne, it's a little unsophisticated. I mean if they've been coercing us into believing the plausibility of one-man-versus-a-hundred [Fist of Fury] since the 70s what chance have we of a reversal in reality martial arts after all this time?

one of those no-guard, bouncing, leg flipping numpties from the olympics, when the TKD I do is so far removed from that as to be a completely seperate art.

Very picturesque description - LMAO here!! Yeah I'm feeling your pain at being pigeonholed in that way. I suppose this is the essence of stereotyping in the arts stemming from what people are fed to them. Is there anything we can do about that as a martial arts community? Or do us practising folk just do their best to change perceptions at the grass-roots level of the schools in their own communities?

Thanks for your post...

Respects!

 

[MartialIntent]

While I enjoy a good suspend your belief movie just like anyone else, I think that the FMA's in the movies are nice to see, but I also think it gives a perception that everyone is a knife carrying killer, or worse yet can only defend yourself with two sticks in a predetermined pattern.

Rich, can you point us to any specific movies featuring FMA?

I think you raise another good point here - that the likes of FMA are somewhat sidelined on our big and small screens in favor of the "better known" styles. Would you agree with this? And if so, would you think floating-voter potential students may choose a more popular style [apologies for this terminology - I hope you know what I mean and take no offense!] in favor of the likes of say a Filipino or Indonesian art simply because they've had scant exposure to those arts on their screens?

Always interested in seeing some well-worked FMA - pure poetry!

Respects!

 

[DeLamar.J]

In which case, have you any desire to "awaken the masses" to the truth? Or are you happy for them to exist in ignorance?

Respects!

I feel that the people who put the hard work in to learn thruth, are deserving of it. Or, those who have sincere questions, I have no problem answering them. It would be nice in a way to educate the masses, unfortunately I'm just not good enough, even if I wanted to.

 

[MartialIntent]

I feel that the people who put the hard work in to learn thruth, are deserving of it. Or, those who have sincere questions, I have no problem answering them. It would be nice in a way to educate the masses, unfortunately I'm just not good enough, even if I wanted to.

Do you think though that the viewing masses have any desire whatsoever to be educated to the reality of martial arts when they can sit popcorn-happily subconsciously believing in the possibility of punching holes in walls or throwing darts blindfolded into trees in the forest?

I believe the reality of martial arts [especially in the real world... ie. street] is never and can never be so pretty as that seen on screen. And I wonder if bloody knuckles, split eyelids and wild flailing "windmill" punching is what viewers will ever want. My question to you is, does a happy medium exist for a potential movie that lies somewhere between super-slick CGI or wirework and the sort of brutal fighting caught on CCTV that only makes late-night cable cop shows?

What do you think?

Respects!

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich, can you point us to any specific movies featuring FMA?

I think you raise another good point here - that the likes of FMA are somewhat sidelined on our big and small screens in favor of the "better known" styles. Would you agree with this? And if so, would you think floating-voter potential students may choose a more popular style [apologies for this terminology - I hope you know what I mean and take no offense!] in favor of the likes of say a Filipino or Indonesian art simply because they've had scant exposure to those arts on their screens?

Always interested in seeing some well-worked FMA - pure poetry!

Respects!

Well the character "Sticks" from one of the Bruce Lee Movies was Dan Inosanto. He had to break a pool cue to have two sticks. Nice work and enjoyed, but thought it could have played a little more.

The Haunted with Sayoc Kali

Star Gate Atlantis has a Character who local the Pegasus Galaxy who does two sticks. Although she seems to fight well, although they brought in another "Big Guy" to do the heavy fighting. Why could she not do it?

Xena and even Hurcules which was filmed in New Zealand, had FMA and Indonesia arts, but they did two stick pattern work as well.

The Bourne movies were ok, for some of the stuff, and this was more like what I like to see, but most people did not know what it was.

While I like it, it just seems that if there is a case in the news, they play of the knife work of FMA's, while in TV the two stick pattern stuff seems to be the "safe" way to go and in the movies it is Death Knife work. No real in between.

Guess MY comment might have come across wrong.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Also see this thread: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31487 which has a link to an article that talks about real versus cool.

 

[DeLamar.J]

Do you think though that the viewing masses have any desire whatsoever to be educated to the reality of martial arts when they can sit popcorn-happily subconsciously believing in the possibility of punching holes in walls or throwing darts blindfolded into trees in the forest?

I believe the reality of martial arts [especially in the real world... ie. street] is never and can never be so pretty as that seen on screen. And I wonder if bloody knuckles, split eyelids and wild flailing "windmill" punching is what viewers will ever want. My question to you is, does a happy medium exist for a potential movie that lies somewhere between super-slick CGI or wirework and the sort of brutal fighting caught on CCTV that only makes late-night cable cop shows?

What do you think?

Respects!

Most people need and want a hero. Im martial arts movies, the main guy can do unrealistic hero types of things, and thats what alot of people like to see. As far as a happy medium, Im not sure thats possible because its either realistic or its not. I guess a movie script could have a character that was a mma fighter, became infected with some kind of virus/mutating/ ect something and then became some type of super martial artist. Great realistic fight scenes in the beginning(for real martial artists), then super powered ones in the end(for armchair martial artists).
Someone will do it sooner or later. I think thats the only way for a happy medium. It could be a great movie. You give people everything they need in that movie, very balanced, not sticking to realism or fantasy, but a little of both.