Young atheist needs support

Discussion in 'The Study' started by fangjian, May 19, 2011.

  1. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    You are correct - I don't care for the "Under God" clause, and I'd also be happy to see "In God We Trust" removed from our money, but I sincerely doubt it's going to happen, and you are also correct that it doesn't keep me up nights. I've got too much else to worry about.

    I'm pretty sure you're aware of it, but just to double check - I didn't make the statement you replied to here.
     
  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't disagree with you with regard to your experiences. I lived in the South, I am Catholic, not Baptist. I might as well have worn horns and carried a pitchfork. Yes, the proselytizing is part of the background noise. They don't think they're doing it. I get that. Heck, I had to attend a mandatory 'company prayer breakfast' that had a preacher saying that he prayed for the Jews and Catholics, that we'd come to know God. I didn't much care for that.

    But this is not about that. It's not about how others make you feel, it's about the law. Can they give a religious benediction at a school function like graduation? I think in most jurisdictions, the answer is 'yes'. However, he challenged them and the school backed down. Good for him. But now he's upset because everyone hates him? I'm sorry, there is no law that says people have to like it when you 'correct' them. They're going to hate him. Right or wrong, he brought that on himself. I don't know how you make people not hate him; there's no law for that.
     
  3. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Who's to say "what's best for society?"

    Which society?

    Apparently, what's best for the society this kid finds himself in-that small community where he attended school-is to have a benediction at graduation.

    "law, etc.," as I said, is somewhat murky in this instance, but, in spite of understandable perceptions to the contrary, such demonstrations of faith in the public square have been upheld as legal.
     
  4. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    IF he gets assaulted, it would be a crime and should be investigated as such

    it would also be his own damn fault for pissing off the entire TOWN.

    but still a crime
     
  5. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    Sorry, I wasn't trying to be snarky. I mean it quite literally. There is something wrong with your (not you personally) thinking if you think the appropriate response with someone interfering in the religion based partially on "turn the other cheek" and similar is to hand out a beating. He didn't even insult or blaspheme.
     
  6. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Understood. :bangahead:

    True he didn't insult or blaspheme, but he removed the option for a prayer from the remainder of the audience & students. That in itself could be viewed by some or the majority of the community, as the very same.

    It was presented earlier, graduation ceremonies are optional, not required. I know when I graduated from college, I was 1800 miles from the ceremony & received the paper in the mail. My younger brother almost opted out of his graduation from high school due to his band's travel schedule (he was a professional musician) but was able to make it. This kid should've opted out rather than imposing his view on the masses or kept quiet.
     
  7. Darksoul

    Darksoul Brown Belt

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    -This may be a moot point but did the kid really have the option to not attend the ceremony? I had to attend my high school's graduation ceremony. Did he know before hand what would happen during the ceremony? If he did, I would think he could have justified his absence from it and not caused such a ruckus.

    But again, did he have a choice? I personally have found silence to be the better choice, sometimes. Either way, it will be a good learning experience for him.

    Andrew
     
  8. Big Don

    Big Don Sr. Grandmaster

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    Not according to the letter of the US Constitution
     
  9. fangjian

    fangjian Black Belt

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    A secular society like ours.
    It probably would have been fine. However I do think that he was likely someone who has been dealing with something for a while, and saw this as an opportunity to do something about it. Some have said 'attention whoring'. I don't entirely disagree, as I'm sure attention was obviously wanted. But many here think it was just some 'teenage angst' or something. Nah


    Sorry. No. It was for TF. I haven't figured out how to 'multi quote' yet. For this one post, I copy and paste each thing then write your names up top and put in bold. Very tedious.
    What's wrong with 'blaspheme'?
    I didn't wanna repeat 'bullocks' before, and just put 'BS', since they mean the same thing. Or did you really mean 'testicles'?
     
  10. ganglian

    ganglian Orange Belt

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    You cry stalker when someone questions your opinion, laughable though it is, and yet here you are just the epitome of diplomacy....

    I even disagree with him to, but that just didnt to be, loser
     
  11. elder999

    elder999 El Oso de Dios!

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    Really? "Like ours?" Based upon which demographic would that be, exactly? I mean, you can say we have a secular government, and I wouldn't argue the point, though some might, but a "secular society?"


    I don't know which of our United States you live in, but based on this, I think it's the one in your imagination.
     
  12. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    translation please?
     
  13. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    Blasphem... much like "to bleve" as stated by Miracle Max.

    Nah... Bollocks is Bollcks.
     
  14. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    QFT

    we are in no way shape or form a secular society
     
  15. Flea

    Flea Beating you all over those fries!

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    He shouldn't have to skip it. It's his ceremony, at his school amongst his peers, celebrating a major milestone of his life. He earned it through hard work, just like (one hopes) everyone else there. And even if his attendance wasn't required by the district, one mustn't underestimate the power of family pressure. If all the grandparents, cousins, aunts, uncles, godparents and family friends had already ponied up for gifts and plane tickets, he may have been better off facing the wrath of his neighbors.
     
  16. Sukerkin

    Sukerkin Have the courage to speak softly

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    As an 'outsider' who also has something of an 'inside track' thanks to talking with you fellows, I have to say that America is a bit schitzo when it comes to this issue of whether you are a secular society or not.

    In certain parts of the States, then no, those places are most assuredly not secular. In others, then yes, very much a secular, rationalist/humanist ethos.

    Historically, a 'closed' social circle in a particular region will retain it's myth-culture longer than a more open and socially fluid area, particularly if there is a disparity in wealth. It's a positive feedback loop - if everyone believes in a creator-deity then everyone grows up to believe in a creator-deity. If most people feel that such religious/magical/shamaic traditions belong with our more primitive ancestors, then people are more likely to grow up not accepting that a creator-deity is a suitable explanation for why the universe is the way it is.

    I don't know enough detail of American demographics tho' to say if it is a clear North/South divide on this? Can you chaps elaborate?
     
  17. ganglian

    ganglian Orange Belt

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    you're a second rate abusive troll who doesn't like being called on it. clear enough?
     
  18. Flea

    Flea Beating you all over those fries!

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    Now, there's no reason to get personal here. Not when we can let the Rapture sort us all out tomorrow.

    :boing2:
     
  19. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    If such a place is so horrible, then why hasn't he taken responsibility upon himself to leave?

    He wouldn't give a a rat's backside what the town thinks if he was getting ready to move out of the Bible Belt for college in an area that he believes is more hospitable to his worldview. We'd love to have his tuition dolla.....errrr....I mean, we'd love to have a bright, thinking person gracing the colleges in New Hampshire. :D


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_hampshire
     
  20. fangjian

    fangjian Black Belt

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    Hehehe. You are probably right, my friend. Likely, my imagination. Also, I am likely using the word 'society' in a way that you are not. Or I am ignorant to how most use it etc.

    You can't say anything without something throwing this argument out there.
    Person A: " I disagree with the way our healthcare system is here in the USA. "
    Person B: " Oh yeah? Well, maybe you should just move!"

    just move?

    Not so easy for some people.123
     

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