WTF President : "New uniforms will further promote taekwondo"

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by andyjeffries, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. troubleenuf

    troubleenuf Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    You know.. here is the deal. If you are going to change something there should be a reason for the change. You should not be changing something just to simply change it for the sake of change. Now if you are changing it what better reason could you change it than to encourage participation. In any sport if you are going to encourage participation you need to look at the younger age for that participation. So here is the what I am seeing lately from Korea.
    Forms: Robotic type forms that do not encourage individual personality nor do they showcase Taekwondos dynamic kicking- want to encourage youth- get rid of the "traditional forms" introduce "competition forms that actually showcase Taekwondos best stuff and reward those astounding high kicks and displays of athleticism. Want to keep traditional forms... fine use them like skating does for prelims and then open up the non traditional froms for the finals. Dang get something that is Dynamic... Use the BEST stuff we have and the stuff that the kids WANT to do and you will see participation spike!
    Uniforms- Dont designs something that your grandma would have worn... get someone to design something that is dynamic that the kids WANT to wear. Something that looks cool, that has some style. Hate to tell you... Grandmas gown aint going to make it.
     
  2. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,816
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    But a valid reason for change could be as simple as "we prefer it". The older generation that are in charge of groups like the WTF may prefer a more traditional Korean style outfit (and the Gyeonggibok is much more similar to a Hanbok). If they prefer it, that's a valid reason for wanting to change it.

    You may not agree with their reason, but they have them :)

    Personally I'm not a fan of a dark blue belt instead of black and I'm not a fan of yellow for the higher dans (but I'm not one so it doesn't affect me) - aside from that, I actually quite like them. I plan to buy one when they come out (found out over the weekend who the UK distributor will be and I already have an account with them)...
     
  3. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    It is not required to change uniforms. I just do it because of the what I do in terms of the three divisions. For traditional forms I wear my traditional karate uniform. For weapons, I put on a hakama because I do a kumsul form. For sparring I have a very light weight uniform that I put in that helps me move faster. However, I could stay with just one uniform for all divisions if I wanted to.
     
  4. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    What is wrong with dressing a bit more culturally? It is a Korean art after all. I don't hear objections to people having to dress more "Chinese" when doing kungfu or wushu. Nor do I hear people objecting to dressing more Japanese when doing Kenjutsu. So what is the hang up here?

    Keep in mind that this is not a KKW decision. This is a WTF decision which only effects the national and world competition sanctioned by WTF. So unless you are going to be competing at national and world level competitions sanctioned by WTF, it really shouldn't effect you at all.
     
  5. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    So in essence you want to make it similar to sport karate tournaments? I would like to see that as well. Have separate divisions for traditional and creative forms.

    I would disagree to a point. On the sport karate circuits you will see a lot of kids wearing traditional looking uniforms and designing to look "ancient". I personally like this more cultural design in the uniform. However, I do agree that if you split of forms division to a traditional and a creative then in creative they should allow the competitors to wear something modern if they wish.
     
  6. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gander
    What is wrong with it is that by dressing "more Korean" you're distancing us from TaeKwonDo in my mind. These don't look anything like the TaeKwonDo dobok always has and I consider the Dobok part of our identity.

    You're right, of course. Misspoke. As far as affecting me I probably won't compete in poomsae at all anytime soon let alone at a high level so no, no direct implications to me. It's just important to me to have knowledge of and an opinion on big changes like this.
     
  7. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gander
    I knew what you meant, just not something I ever considered although maybe I should. Even 2 of the same uniforms would be nice so I'm not dripping wet after sparring.
     
  8. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    How does it distnace you from TKD? The uniforms don't look like the TKD dobok that you are familiar with, but then again, the uniform you are familiar with was not always what was associated wiht TKD? Prior to the v-neck everyone wore crossover doboks. Now you have TKD uniforms that are v-neck and different colors, but here is the thing, there are a lot of sport karate schools which also utilize the v-neck uniforms. So if anything this type of movement away from the v-neck will be separate into a unique identity of being TKD.
     
  9. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,971
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Aurora, IL
    Sparring is usually the last event on our plate. I am happy about that, since the forms and weapons helps warm me up before hand. :)
     
  10. MAist25

    MAist25 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Anyone know why the website lists 1-3 Dan as Master? Ive never heard of a 1st Dan ever being considered a master...
     
  11. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,816
    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...e-Title-of-Sabun-Earned&p=1368376#post1368376

    Puunui wrote:
    "There was a statement from the Kukkiwon a while back that said that those who were 1st through 5th Dan were Master level, and those 6th Dan and higher were grandmaster level. I noticed after that came out, a whole lot more people started calling themselves Grandmaster. :) Personally I think it was a mistranslation between yudanja (1st-5th dan) and Kodanja (6th Dan and higher)."
     
  12. MAist25

    MAist25 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Messages:
    294
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Thanks. I was also thinking it had something to do with a mistranslation as well. I was sure as hell hoping the WTF wasnt beginning to regard 1st Dans as masters.
     
  13. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
    It was not a mistranslation. According to Kyong Myeong Lee, that main author of the Taekwondo information you find on the WTF, Kukkiwon, KTA and Korean Government websites and the Kukkiwon Textbook, it's correct. According to the Kukkiwon Jidoja Yunsuwon instructors academy, it's also correct. According to the WTF, posted by them on their own website, it is also correct.

    Master does not mean instructor. Master is a courtesy title for Yudanja (1st Dan/Poom - 5th Dan), it's like Mister, or Ma'am. Grandmaster does not mean instructor. Grandmaster is a courtesy title for Kodanja (6th Dan - 9th Dan).

    Sabum means "instructor."

    Of course every instructor makes up their own rules for the culture inside their dojang. So it is common for Taekwondoin in the USA to believe that 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th Dan is when you magically become a "master" and that means you are an instructor at some school. But not at the Kukkiwon. You must for attend the instructors course, then pass the test. In order to do that, you have to hold Kukkiwon 4th Dan. Of course in the USA, anything goes, including fancy black belts with big red and gold stripes around the middle, gold uniforms, etc.

    There is what people do at their own dojang, then there is what Kukkiwon does.
     
  14. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,378
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What I meant by mistranslation was the yudanja usually translates to "dan holder" and kodanja usually translates to "old or senior dan holder".
    It also gets a little confusing because the KTA and WTF had an International Master Instructor (Kukje Sabum) certification program from the 70's through the early 90s, and the recent Kukkiwon Instructor Course certificates say "Master Instructor" (Sabum) now.
     
  15. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
    Oh. Actually I did not see your post, I should have quoted this post, that's what I was responding to

    [​IMG]MAist25
    [​IMG]
    Martial Talk
    Green Belt
    [​IMG]


    Join DateSep 2010LocationLong Island, NYAge20Posts106Thanks23Thanked 41 Times in 30 PostsRep Power2​


    [h=2]Re: WTF President : "New uniforms will further promote taekwondo"[/h]
    Thanks. I was also thinking it had something to do with a mistranslation as well. I was sure as hell hoping the WTF wasnt beginning to regard 1st Dans as masters.​


     
  16. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,378
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No worries. I remember it was you who wrote to the Kukkiwon and found out the Master/Yudanja and Grandmaster/Kodanja connections. And when that went out, the number of grandmasters went shooting up, especially among american practitioners. :) However, I don't think those new grandmasters started referring to their 1st Dans as Master.
     
  17. mastercole

    mastercole Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,157
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
    Interesting how that works :) When I pass that information on other instructors I get the same strong rejection I got 14 years ago when I came back to the USA from the Kukkiwon instructor course, and we started telling everyone about the Kukkiwon standards that GM Hae Man Park had already been showing you and others for years . I'm glad to see they like the grandmaster situation, hopefully they will extend the like courtesy to their own black belt students and begin to recognized them as master. I have been doing that in my schools for years.
     
  18. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,378
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm kind of used to it at this point, people getting all mad at being exposed to a concept or idea that they don't like, at the moment, but then later that same concept becomes generally accepted. Short narrow stances is the example that always comes to mind.


    I generally don't use titles at all for myself or my students, just first names is enough. For other people, I try to call them by the title that they themselves want to be called.
     
  19. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    6,472
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Olney, Maryland
    View attachment $2011-06-20_2680x_new-uniform-Poomsae-e1308552829707.jpg

    Since the links on previous pages do not seem to work, here is a picture. This is the dobok in question, is it not? If so, I like it. I think that it is a good change.

    Regarding earlier comments about the curriculum needing to be addressed instead of the dobok, personally, I find nothing wrong with the curriculum as it is. If there are things that specific kwanjangs feel should be there, then there is nothing stopping you from working those things into your own curriculum.

    Personally, I think that hard and solid training in the existing curriculum is plenty.
     
  20. dortiz

    dortiz Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Northern VA
    "I'm kind of used to it at this point, people getting all mad at being exposed to a concept or idea that they don't like, at the moment, but then later that same concept becomes generally accepted."

    I find people do this in general with everything. Even catch myself : )

    Hopefully as Martial Artists we continue to improve ourselves and fight that reaction and evaluate things for what they are. As for Billy at work I think he will just react this way to new changes until he leaves....123
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
crossover dobok
,
jcalicu male taekwondo poomsae uniform for sale in egypt
,
jcalicu poomsae uniform
,

korean dobok wtf introduce

,
masters vest for wtf poomsae uniform
,
new wtf uniforms
,
world taekwondo poomsae uniforms
,
wtf new uniforms