WTF clubs that credits General Choi as founder and/or developer of TaeKwonDo

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Axiom, Sep 27, 2017.

  1. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    It's the other side of the hand with different targets and multiple different possible paths, some of which are physically impossible with knife hand e.g. groin strike forwards.

    Palm heel strike uses a flat hand, are you going to call that alternative knife hand too? What about a slap?

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  2. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    The dude below hits with the same point of impact as in the black and White clip we discussed, using the same motion. How is the striking surface different??

     
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  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Are you offering one? He certainly deserves a slap. :D
     
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  4. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    It is the other side of the hand you muppet.

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  5. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    Thats my point. And you still label it knife hand so the part of the hand is irrelevant to whether its a knife hand
     
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  6. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    It is a poor translation. The names mean 'knife hand' and 'knife hand back side'. The technique for using those respective surfaces is different, their targets are different, and their paths are different. The name is incidental as the true name is Korean and cannot be directly and accurately translated. They are similar in hand form, but not in other ways. The finger positioning is important for each, but there's no reason for a 9th dan to teach you this as sonnal deung does not appear in the colour belt form syllabus. So, he's right, all knife hand techniques in your form syllabus so far are bent fingers. Accept it and move on. You'll learn this technique soon.

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  7. RTKDCMB

    RTKDCMB Senior Master

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    Apples and oranges. A knife hand and reverse knife hand strike travel in opposite directions and have entirely different body mechanics whereas the turning kick with the instep and ball of the foot travel in the same direction and have virtually the same body mechanics..
     
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  8. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Hey look, he's doing a knifehand!
    Since the contact point and actual striking technique are irrelevant, according to you...
     
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  9. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    I can strike soft parts of the body such as the kneck with an "incorrect" knife hand strike configuration - fingers straight.. and they won't break. Or I can throw a ridge strike where fingers are meant to be straight. It doesn't matter which way the motion goes or which side of the hand I strike with. Fingers won't break either way.
     
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  10. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    ,
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Roundhouse kicks all use the same striking surface - at least all the roundhouse kicks I know. A spinning back kick is as unrelated as that ridge-hand.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, it is equally different. And the toe position for one is as equally unrelated as the finger position in question.
     
  13. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Roundhouse kicks can hit with the shin, the instep, the ball of the foot, or the point of the toe*, depending on the art and the specific variation. The change in striking surface can require some adjustments to the body dynamics, but it's still a roundhouse kick.

    *(There's at least one karate style which conditions the feet so that you can do this barefoot, but I have no desire to try that. I only use the point of the toe when kicking with shoes, Savate style.)
     
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  14. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Not really. We teach the roundhouse striking with the instep, the shin, or the ball of the foot. We consider the instep as primarily a sparring kick, when your goal isn't to break anything. The shin and ball of the foot versions are for breaking, whether that means boards or ribs.

    Now, the body mechanics for the kick are the same regardless of which surface strikes, unlike the knifehand vs ridgehand vs spearhand nonsense.

    And of course, the various hook kicks are completely different to a roundhouse kick.
     
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  15. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    In Your school. In others they teach for the instep technique to chamber as a front kick before pivoting, unlike for the ball of the foot variation in which the chambering is semicircular.
     
  16. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    You guys did not concider reverse knife hand strike to be a knife hand technique.. Well guess what, I do and have always done, and completely agree with the English translation.

    I blanked on the proper term and kept labelling it alternative knife hand for some bizarre reason.
     
  17. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    Not necessarily. There are ball of the foot variants with the front kick chamber. But still, these kicks have largely similar dynamics and directions, which the knife hand and ridge hand do not.

    The slightly different striking angle when using ridge hand means the fingers do not need to be bent as they are already slightly offset from the angle of the strike. This is not the case with knife hand.

    This might not be an issue with a soft target, but with hard targets for which these techniques are also suited, such as the temple, the finger positioning becomes important in reducing the risk of injury to the striker.

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  18. Axiom

    Axiom Black Belt

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    Even so, there is a semi circular chambering for the ball of the foot in the Kukkiwon textbook.
     
  19. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

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    There's also linear chambering for ball of the foot. See dollyo chagi in Taegeuk Yuk Jang for example.

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  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, instep/shin is a fairly minor variation to me. The ball of the foot we have a different name for (rib kick), so I wasn't counting that one. And toe of the foot I'd not seen - that's a new one for me. Seems there's some difference in terminology from what I'm used to.
     

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