WT Training

[Nabakatsu]

Hi all, not sure if my initial introduction thread is still here or if it's moved, it appears to be here, but I was told it was moved, so I'm not sure! either way.. I'd like to go over some of the things I have been doing and to see if anyone has any suggestions...
Brief Brief history if you missed my initial thread, I just started ebmas WT about 7 weeks ago.. and yeah thats about it
So! I have been doing the following daily for past couple of weeks
SNT for roughly an hour, in one big chunk, and than a few times after that during the day, Been doing triangle push ups usually in sets of 10-20 a couple times a day, sometimes I'll take a day off if my arms are hurting too much tho
Been doing this set of 3 kicks side to middle to other side, for 1 set, in sets of 20, 3 times per leg a day.. and than i've been working on my stepping using adduction about 30 mns a day. oh yeah, and I've been pushing my palm upside down against a wall trying to enable palm strikes from that position eventually, this has not seemed to increase my flexibility at all, and i've been doing it in like 3-4 2 mn segments for a couple weeks.. not sure if there is a better way to be doing this.. so yeah! if anyone has any suggestions of other things I could be doing, or possible ways to improve the quality of what i'm doing I would appreciate it! I've also been watching a lot of instructional videos and fights.. even watched the prodigal son a good 20 times and warriors two a couple times too! (can't wait for the new one with donnie yen!)
Naba

 

[Si-Je]

Sounds like your really devoted! Your doing a good job.
Work your stance and footwork as much as posible, chain punch for as long as you can keep your arms up. Enjoy the teaching, stick with it, the good stuff will come.

 

[paulus]

I have been doing the following daily for past couple of weeks
SNT for roughly an hour, in one big chunk, and than a few times after that during the day

I think for someone only 7 weeks in, what you're doing with SNT is really good. I'd stick with that for now. I wish I had 1 hour to devote to SNT each day!

Also, if you're looking for advice regarding your training, your sifu is probably the best (and safest) person to ask first.

 

[mook jong man]

Its good that you are devoted to your training Nabakatsu , but make sure you don't burn yourself out .
I have seen this phenomenon before when people joined up , they would be obsessed with it and set themselves punishing training regimes in a vain attempt to be as good as other students in the school that had been training for years , they would keep it up for a little while and then leave

You have to be in this thing for the long haul , in the early stages improvement is made in leaps and bounds after a few years it seems that you have reached a plateau and sometimes you might even feel you are going backwards .

It is during these times that you have to dig deep and keep yourself consistantly training . All I'm saying is that you should pace yourself a little bit , once the novelty wears off you might begin to see training as a chore and begin to hate it .

Gaining skill in Wing Chun is a slow process sort of like a sculptor chipping away on a massive block of stone , every day the sculptor chips away a little more and more , until after many years a beautiful statue is revealed .

 

[paulus]

I have been doing the following daily for past couple of weeks
SNT for roughly an hour, in one big chunk

Sorry Naba, it's obvious I'm fixated on your SNT practice, but can I ask how you work this? How long does each SNT last?

At the moment, each one I do lasts around 20 minutes. I feel like I could go on longer, but at the same time, I really can feel the benefit from those 20 mins.

 

[yak sao]

Your work ethic is admirable and an inspiration, but keep in mind that mastering WT is a marathon and not a sprint.
Your sifu Emin is an incredible martial artist and he will take you far, but keep in mind he's been studying WT for 28 years. So while he is definetly someone to emulate, you won't get there overnight.

I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be so wrapped up in your destination that you miss out on the journey.

Good luck.

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Have you seen the movie..Descendants of Wing Chun and the Movie Wing Chun with Michelle Yeoh. Thats a great movie...

Hi all, not sure if my initial introduction thread is still here or if it's moved, it appears to be here, but I was told it was moved, so I'm not sure! either way.. I'd like to go over some of the things I have been doing and to see if anyone has any suggestions...
Brief Brief history if you missed my initial thread, I just started ebmas WT about 7 weeks ago.. and yeah thats about it
So! I have been doing the following daily for past couple of weeks
SNT for roughly an hour, in one big chunk, and than a few times after that during the day, Been doing triangle push ups usually in sets of 10-20 a couple times a day, sometimes I'll take a day off if my arms are hurting too much tho
Been doing this set of 3 kicks side to middle to other side, for 1 set, in sets of 20, 3 times per leg a day.. and than i've been working on my stepping using adduction about 30 mns a day. oh yeah, and I've been pushing my palm upside down against a wall trying to enable palm strikes from that position eventually, this has not seemed to increase my flexibility at all, and i've been doing it in like 3-4 2 mn segments for a couple weeks.. not sure if there is a better way to be doing this.. so yeah! if anyone has any suggestions of other things I could be doing, or possible ways to improve the quality of what i'm doing I would appreciate it! I've also been watching a lot of instructional videos and fights.. even watched the prodigal son a good 20 times and warriors two a couple times too! (can't wait for the new one with donnie yen!)
Naba

 

[Nabakatsu]

To si-je, That sounds perfect for what I need to be doing, I gassed out tonight in class so easily when we were doing punching drills, Too many triangular push ups and not enough stanima chain punching! What good is power if you can't use it? I also asked my Sifu like.. 20 questions and figured out how to improve my stance, I feel my footwork is doing pretty good, because Thats what was the hardest for me at first, so I really trained it hard for a few weeks.. but I will continue, It could be a lot faster, thats for sure! Thanks for your words of encouragement and good advice!

To mook jong man, I feel like I've gone back and forth between being burnt out and not, but I'm a very stubborn person, and the underlying fact (at least how I see it, hopefully i'm not too deluded) is that I have martial arts in my soul, and I never really acted on it until now, so I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do, and yeah, I am kind of trying to catch up the whole world in this respect, I think your advise comes from deep understanding and I admire your ability to see so clearly. I think i'm going to train even harder actually, lol.. I have such huge ambitions, I feel like my stubborn side will help keep me in it, even if I begin to hate it, but I have a love of love and deep wisdom stored within me as well, and I can look at things concerning myself from outside of myself, for the most part, altho I don't always act on it, but I'm getting better at that too!
Thanks for your words of wisdom, they are quite appreciated!

To paulus, I have been doing various differant SNT's sometimes I go really slow, sometimes as fast as I can.. sometimes as hard as I can.. but usually I just do it, or try to do it, like we do it in class, pretty quickly, but accurate and true to the prinicipals as far as I have witnessed, Typically I just set an alarm for an hour and than practice until it goes off, but during the day I just feel like doing it, and will do it than as well, usually like we do it in class. the ones In class I would venture a guess as to say it lasts about 2-4 minnutes roughly. Thanks for kind words, good advice in regards to asking my sifu, and also sharing your own practice with me!


To yak sau, I appreciate your kind words and your insightful way of looking at things, like I said in my above post, I feel like I have so much to catch up on, it probably would be good for me to slow down, and it's quite plausible I will sooner or later, but I think for now, I'm going to continue to push myself, so long as it doesn't feel like it's becoming too much. Thanks for the luck, I may just well need it


To yoshiyahu, I have seen both, it doesn't appear that the movie with michelle yeoh they actually are using a whole lot of wing chun, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable to watch! A couple of my favorites include Shaolin temple strikes back from ninja theatre, fist of legend, jet li's remake.. the timeless classic shaolin master killer, aka 36 chambers of shaolin.. I'm actually really fond of the progidal son as well.. I'm sure I could go on and on, but those are some of the ones I've watched well over 50 times lol

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Actually. Michelle Yeoh is using alot Wing Chun. It appears because she does high kicks that she is not using Wing Chun but her principles are all the same. Defend the centre line, Use their force against them, flow, Attack their structure and center line, punish their guards and structure. etc etc. Actually My lineage reminds me much of the movie Wing Chun and the Prodigal son. Remember in the movie wing chun where she is on a table fighting. Classic table fighting scene. But as for the other actors. No they were using Wing Chun just Michelle Yeoh. Many people say she isn't using Wing Chun but if you simply slow down the dvd and scrutinize what she is doing you will see it is wing chun very much soo. On another forum I gave a long analyiticall anaylsis of her wing chun scenes. But I will spare you that here.

But simply analyse her moves...you will see its all wing chun in principle...

But advice to you would never stop seeking ways to make your WC better. always strive for what benefits you from running to jumping rope to build up your stamina. Chain punches trains your abilitiy to punch. In about three months you should be able to throw one thousand chain punches a day. But just because you can throw a thousand chain punches doesn't mean your stamina is going to better than your Average ground fighter who runs three miles a day. Also the way you practice Sil Lim Tao is similiar to what my Sifu told me to do. He said do it slow with softness. Than medium that fast. I usually do it hard with snap when I go a medium speed. An fast I use more of flow. As for punching drills. Also do the punching drills at home on your own every day along with more push ups. The more you do this the stronger your body gets. I also like to do punches and push ups in between this trains the power and stamina at the same time for punching. Your power will increase greatly. With out power your chain punches are useless even if you have stamina. Your sifu is wise. My Sifu had us do so much before we even got to punch. That by the time we had to punch into our arms fell off it was actually like a break.

In my Wing Chun class we had to
lift bricks
push ups on bricks
hold jars filled with water out to our sides(Eagle claw hold)
torque a metal pipe
hold traditional horse stances and Arrow stances
Hold hanging horse
each stance like two minutes each
Hold YGKYM for like five to ten minutes
Do Chi Kung exercises

Then finally the punch routines.

Then after that steps.

Then kicks

Then chi sao

Then sparring...

Wow i am tired just thinking about it.

To si-je, That sounds perfect for what I need to be doing, I gassed out tonight in class so easily when we were doing punching drills, Too many triangular push ups and not enough stanima chain punching! What good is power if you can't use it? I also asked my Sifu like.. 20 questions and figured out how to improve my stance, I feel my footwork is doing pretty good, because Thats what was the hardest for me at first, so I really trained it hard for a few weeks.. but I will continue, It could be a lot faster, thats for sure! Thanks for your words of encouragement and good advice!

To mook jong man, I feel like I've gone back and forth between being burnt out and not, but I'm a very stubborn person, and the underlying fact (at least how I see it, hopefully i'm not too deluded) is that I have martial arts in my soul, and I never really acted on it until now, so I feel like I have a lot of catching up to do, and yeah, I am kind of trying to catch up the whole world in this respect, I think your advise comes from deep understanding and I admire your ability to see so clearly. I think i'm going to train even harder actually, lol.. I have such huge ambitions, I feel like my stubborn side will help keep me in it, even if I begin to hate it, but I have a love of love and deep wisdom stored within me as well, and I can look at things concerning myself from outside of myself, for the most part, altho I don't always act on it, but I'm getting better at that too!
Thanks for your words of wisdom, they are quite appreciated!

To paulus, I have been doing various differant SNT's sometimes I go really slow, sometimes as fast as I can.. sometimes as hard as I can.. but usually I just do it, or try to do it, like we do it in class, pretty quickly, but accurate and true to the prinicipals as far as I have witnessed, Typically I just set an alarm for an hour and than practice until it goes off, but during the day I just feel like doing it, and will do it than as well, usually like we do it in class. the ones In class I would venture a guess as to say it lasts about 2-4 minnutes roughly. Thanks for kind words, good advice in regards to asking my sifu, and also sharing your own practice with me!


To yak sau, I appreciate your kind words and your insightful way of looking at things, like I said in my above post, I feel like I have so much to catch up on, it probably would be good for me to slow down, and it's quite plausible I will sooner or later, but I think for now, I'm going to continue to push myself, so long as it doesn't feel like it's becoming too much. Thanks for the luck, I may just well need it


To yoshiyahu, I have seen both, it doesn't appear that the movie with michelle yeoh they actually are using a whole lot of wing chun, but that doesn't make it any less enjoyable to watch! A couple of my favorites include Shaolin temple strikes back from ninja theatre, fist of legend, jet li's remake.. the timeless classic shaolin master killer, aka 36 chambers of shaolin.. I'm actually really fond of the progidal son as well.. I'm sure I could go on and on, but those are some of the ones I've watched well over 50 times lol

 

[Si-Je]

Wasn't the wing chun different when the nun and Yim wing chun did it back then? I thought it changed with her husband adding the weapons, and exposure to the chinese opera?

Oh, make sure you relax in every movement. You've got to learn to be loose before the power. The power you see on videos will come with relaxation, speed, and flow.

Only stance muscles should be flexed and tight. Upper body stays totally relaxed, shoulders, arms, neck.
Tense up only at the moment you actually hit target. (mainly your fist clenches and upper back/shoulder blade muscles flex.)
Don't tense fists when punching, you will be able to punch longer. (espectially if punching in air) If arms and fists are lose you'll punch longer and faster by being relaxed. Your stamina in this will build, time yourself to see how long you can punch in the air and then go longer and push yourself to keep punching even if your punching slower because your tired.
Keep upper body still when punching. Don't move shoulders, stance. Only arms, like a rock 'em sock 'em robot toy.

 

[Nabakatsu]

Thanks for your replys,
To yoshiyahu, I think my potential misconceptions lie in that when I watched it the first time around I hadn't really internalized as many of the concepts as I have now, The main thing I remember was flourishing flowery hand movements, and it seemed to go against the concept of economy of motion, I will take a look at it later when I can find my copy and try to keep and open mind!
Your advice about training seems quite sound, my arms are already aching thinking about doing 1000 punches followed by push ups! Maybe I'll start running too, at least when the 20 feet of snow has subsided a little, it sounds like your sifu trained you guys hard! thats awesome, thanks for your reply!

To si-je, you have a good point regarding the wing chun movie, I certainly failed to make that potential connection, well said!
I've managed to get the general idea of relaxing with my movements/strikes now, after doing it so much flexing I finally pieced it together, "release yourself from your own force" I thought I had understood, lol.. nothing like a bizillion punches to open your eyes eh?
Thats a good idea regarding timing and continuing to push the legnth I do this for, thanks for your reply! Rock'em sock'emmm Rock'em sock'emmmm yeahhhhhhhh!

 

[mook jong man]

Thanks for your replys,
To yoshiyahu, I think my potential misconceptions lie in that when I watched it the first time around I hadn't really internalized as many of the concepts as I have now, The main thing I remember was flourishing flowery hand movements, and it seemed to go against the concept of economy of motion, I will take a look at it later when I can find my copy and try to keep and open mind!
Your advice about training seems quite sound, my arms are already aching thinking about doing 1000 punches followed by push ups! Maybe I'll start running too, at least when the 20 feet of snow has subsided a little, it sounds like your sifu trained you guys hard! thats awesome, thanks for your reply!

To si-je, you have a good point regarding the wing chun movie, I certainly failed to make that potential connection, well said!
I've managed to get the general idea of relaxing with my movements/strikes now, after doing it so much flexing I finally pieced it together, "release yourself from your own force" I thought I had understood, lol.. nothing like a bizillion punches to open your eyes eh?
Thats a good idea regarding timing and continuing to push the legnth I do this for, thanks for your reply! Rock'em sock'emmm Rock'em sock'emmmm yeahhhhhhhh!

Its okay to punch in the air , but you need to do impact training as well and if you are planning on doing a lot of training at home it would be a good idea to get a wallbag , that will really speed up your progress .

But I don't know your situation , you might be living in a rented apartment or something where the neighbours won't appreciate some dude thumping the wall bag all night long , maybe you could stick it on a tree outside.

 

[Nabakatsu]

This is actually a great idea, I didn't even think of such a possibility, I used to have a punching bag up in my garage but I ended up cutting a whole thru it and sticking my three section staff into it to practice blocking and what not.. long story short it's no longer a punching bag..
either way tho.. it's like -20 outside.. not my cup o tea.. a wall bag would be great.. thanks for the suggestion!

 

[qwksilver61]

I hope this tidbit helps;I started with the traditional Wing Tsun under my direct Dei Si-Hing being Steve Brandon of the Wing Tsun discipline.Years later I found Wing Tzun taught out of Miami beach,I didn't know what to expect in fact I was even skeptical,coming out of a traditional school.Sifu Emin the top fighter and direct student of Sifu,now GM Kieth Kernspecht (GGM Leung Ting Wing Tsun)branches off to form his own style of the same system.Agressive right off the bat.My advice to you,keep doing what you are doing,drop the push ups altogether,load up on chain punches,and wall bag exercises,pay attention especially to your delivery....if you rock back you are defeating the purpose.Smack the bag repititiously,slow accurate..speed.... then Power.it is likened to the end of a whip...in the future add the turnstile...incoming force...the ride you get from energy coming towards you and there you have it...ride the lightning!
Second if all,keep up your efforts do not get discouraged,most important...do not be anxious.SNT is part meditation...be CALM! When my arms contacted Sifu Emins He was TOTALLY and Completely relaxed,however exhibited flexible power.7 mos. is nothing more than scratching the surface.Stick to it and try to understand without..anxiety or what's next..you dig? What is common I find are people who want to be skilled pugilists at an instant...yes it does take time to cultivate and to release and trust that this will eventually work for you given time.Take care......

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Well Nabakatsu you are right about the fancy hand movements. Thats because its a movie...So movies are going to having flying in the air and over dramatization of skills and actual techniques. But many of the basic Techniques are hidden with in those flowery movements. I don't know. When I first saw the movie was in the 90's I was at a friends house who was named Fieshun. He was Chinese. I don't know if his Father did Wing Chun or not. But Fieshun's little sister certainly had a excellent Tan Sao. I learn alot from that five year old girl when I was in high school. It was amazing that she was able to Tan sau our hands down. An she had the technique really good.

But I analyse the girls moves to a Tee. Its because alot of what she was doing I saw before from watching my Sifu or Uncle or Big brother spar. So its pretty cool. I remember one time My Sidai had question my Sifu about Wing Chun working. My sifu told him to defend. With in like three seconds my Sidai was hit ten times and the last blows were two elbows to his chin. He had no time to defend. When he said he was ready two seconds later he was hit ten times. I was like wow. I need that on video tape. What the hell just happen. I need to watch it over and over again. My Sifu is rather short man. My Sidai was like 5'11 or 6 foot. and Muscular build. So it was incredible to see someone younger and bigger just standing there like in the movies with hands down by his sides getting hit.


But your right she could have done those same moves with out the flowery technique. But now and days I don't even see the fancy movements I just see Pak Sau, Tan Sau bong sau, Tan da fok Sau, Fok Da, Bong Da, Pak Da,Kwun Sau, Jut sau, etc etc.

Thanks for your replys,
To yoshiyahu, I think my potential misconceptions lie in that when I watched it the first time around I hadn't really internalized as many of the concepts as I have now, The main thing I remember was flourishing flowery hand movements, and it seemed to go against the concept of economy of motion, I will take a look at it later when I can find my copy and try to keep and open mind!
Your advice about training seems quite sound, my arms are already aching thinking about doing 1000 punches followed by push ups! Maybe I'll start running too, at least when the 20 feet of snow has subsided a little, it sounds like your sifu trained you guys hard! thats awesome, thanks for your reply!

To si-je, you have a good point regarding the wing chun movie, I certainly failed to make that potential connection, well said!
I've managed to get the general idea of relaxing with my movements/strikes now, after doing it so much flexing I finally pieced it together, "release yourself from your own force" I thought I had understood, lol.. nothing like a bizillion punches to open your eyes eh?
Thats a good idea regarding timing and continuing to push the legnth I do this for, thanks for your reply! Rock'em sock'emmm Rock'em sock'emmmm yeahhhhhhhh!

 

[qwksilver61]

It is not so much how you look as it is where your arms seek and controlling the centerline under pressure..trust...it took me a while to get it....don't fight it...clearly evident when performing Chi sau or any two man sets...you will tire easily ( of course consider working muscle groups that are not accustomed to labor) FLEXIBLE force;clear precise accurate movements...skill....speed.... then RELAXED power! trust yourself and be confident!......stick to the format...perfect your skill....do not be anxious...then build speed....only after perfecting your skill move to speed.When we do any thing at speed it becomes grossly exagerated.... give it time,benefit,then you can control chaos........

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes Quicksliver. Practicing Slowly, Accuratley and relax will definitely increase your skill.

 

[Nabakatsu]

Thanks for your responses,
To qwksilver61: I have a few questions, firstly may I ask why you suggest dropping the triangular push ups? A realistic anwser would make my day, because man! they are not fun to do! lol.. I don't have a wall bag yet, but hopefully I can get one soon.. if not Maybe I will try and craft a makeshift one to hold me over.
Another question, you said "in the future add the turnstile... incoming force... the ride you get from the energy coming towards you"
Can you explain this in depth a little bit more, it sounds like some very useful information, but I don't fully understand the dynamics behind it!
another thing I didn't quite grasp was "7 mod. is nothing more than scratching the surface." can you elucidate your meaning of that too please? I appreciate your advice about taking things slow, yet steady, can never hear that enough times, thanks for your general good intentions as well!

To Yoshiyahu, i'm going to watch wing chun tonight while I practice holding my various stances and adducting like a mother! I'll get back to you in regards to that sometime tommorow morning, possibily even tonight!

 

[Yoshiyahu]

Okay let me know what you see. Especially In the fight against the guy at hide out and at the beginning with those guys who jump her you know the bandits.

I could possible post some links to fight scene?

Thanks for your responses,
To qwksilver61: I have a few questions, firstly may I ask why you suggest dropping the triangular push ups? A realistic anwser would make my day, because man! they are not fun to do! lol.. I don't have a wall bag yet, but hopefully I can get one soon.. if not Maybe I will try and craft a makeshift one to hold me over.
Another question, you said "in the future add the turnstile... incoming force... the ride you get from the energy coming towards you"
Can you explain this in depth a little bit more, it sounds like some very useful information, but I don't fully understand the dynamics behind it!
another thing I didn't quite grasp was "7 mod. is nothing more than scratching the surface." can you elucidate your meaning of that too please? I appreciate your advice about taking things slow, yet steady, can never hear that enough times, thanks for your general good intentions as well!

To Yoshiyahu, i'm going to watch wing chun tonight while I practice holding my various stances and adducting like a mother! I'll get back to you in regards to that sometime tommorow morning, possibily even tonight!

 

[Nabakatsu]

I appreciate the offer, I have the dvd somewhere, I looked earlier without much success, but I'm pretty sure I could find it online if not, butttt it'd be cool if you could find the fight scene your alluding to in case I can't find it and decide to watch another movie during practice, cheers!