Oily Dragon
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah, I’ve got that same wooden dao. Red oak, splinters on impact. Ok for forms but not contact drills. I’m making them out of hickory, much more durable for contact.
Oily Dragon
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I like to use the wooden dao at the park.
It attracts a lot less attention than the steel one.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
This is true. I am teaching in a park, I have permission from the city park and recreation department so they know I am doing it, but still would not bring a live weapon. Those stay at home. Would probably attract negative attention, and an injury from one would probably prompt the city to shut me down.
I lived in San Francisco for a long time, and kung fu training in the parks was common. Weaponry was a common thing, and I routinely practiced with my live weapons in the park. Never had a problem. But the culture in San Francisco is kinda of unique in that way. It was just accepted.
So I'm going to mostly be replying to the pictures...
100% NOT a full tang. There is a tang visible where it enters the guard, but it is SMALLER than even the side pieces.
You must be the only person in America without a magnet on their fridge.
Couple red flags...
The fitment is... sketchy. The fact that the tang is visible in front of the guard is one. On a non-full tang weapon, the shoulders where the blade transitions into the tang should be rounded (those cannot be seen in your photos) and covered by the guard. The guard should be flush against the blade, or overlap it a bit. @Flying Crane talked about this as well.
Those side bits are not fitted any better than the blade-to-guard. All those little gaps are rust points. If you have no rust, there is a very high probability that it's not even steel. It could be stainless or aluminum, but those do rust too, eventually.
And rivets??? If this is something traditional in China, ok... I guess... but from a functional standpoint, this is horrible. You're drilling holes near the tang. Which weakens it, in the area that is already most prone to breaking, especially with a partial tang weapon. You cannot loosen rivets, but they can loosen over time. You cannot tighten them. If I wanted to put bits like that on a weapon, they'd be part of the blade. Not tacked on. If there as a reason (tradition or something) that required them to be tacked on afterwards, they'd need to fit the blade better. I'd like to assume that those were fitted properly and have bent over time. That's possible, but given the poor fitment of the blade and guard, I suspect this is how they've always been.
I'd like to see what the magnet test shows.
Having said all that, I have to admit that it's pretty difficult to find a really well made sword these days. And the issues with yours are not the sort of things most people would ever think of, or notice.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Most of the stuff coming in from China, for the purposes of kung fu training, has poorly fitting and poorly assembled components. That is very standard.So I'm going to mostly be replying to the pictures...
100% NOT a full tang. There is a tang visible where it enters the guard, but it is SMALLER than even the side pieces.
You must be the only person in America without a magnet on their fridge.
Couple red flags...
The fitment is... sketchy. The fact that the tang is visible in front of the guard is one. On a non-full tang weapon, the shoulders where the blade transitions into the tang should be rounded (those cannot be seen in your photos) and covered by the guard. The guard should be flush against the blade, or overlap it a bit. @Flying Crane talked about this as well.
Those side bits are not fitted any better than the blade-to-guard. All those little gaps are rust points. If you have no rust, there is a very high probability that it's not even steel. It could be stainless or aluminum, but those do rust too, eventually.
And rivets??? If this is something traditional in China, ok... I guess... but from a functional standpoint, this is horrible. You're drilling holes near the tang. Which weakens it, in the area that is already most prone to breaking, especially with a partial tang weapon. You cannot loosen rivets, but they can loosen over time. You cannot tighten them. If I wanted to put bits like that on a weapon, they'd be part of the blade. Not tacked on. If there as a reason (tradition or something) that required them to be tacked on afterwards, they'd need to fit the blade better. I'd like to assume that those were fitted properly and have bent over time. That's possible, but given the poor fitment of the blade and guard, I suspect this is how they've always been.
I'd like to see what the magnet test shows.
Having said all that, I have to admit that it's pretty difficult to find a really well made sword these days. And the issues with yours are not the sort of things most people would ever think of, or notice.
Some items are being made better, but it is still very hit-and-miss. For example, Instead of a guard made of thin sheet brass, or thin sheet brass over a wood core, you might find a guard made of thicker brass but still not substantial the way I would like it, and while perhaps it is better fitted, still not up to my standards. This is the whole reason why I began rebuilding hilts. I was tired of poorly constructed items that at best I was afraid might come apart, and at worst felt like a mockery of a sword. I stopped playing with toy swords when I was about eleven years old and I wasn’t willing to do it for my kung fu training.
Oily Dragon
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I'm thinking the pictures suck and if you held it in your hands you'd really give me a great take. But I appreciate this one.
The central tang is actually a little thicker than the side supports, I measured. It's exactly 1/8th inch thick, each side strut is more like 1/12th.
As far as it's length, I'm feeling either a central tang, the side supports, or all three all the way to the pommel. The fact that I'm feeling it makes me wonder if this sword is a little loose from all the wear and tear, still it feels perfectly sturdy (and it's taken a lot of hard strikes). Not so much nowadays, this one only gets used for drills.
It's definitely not a rat tail tang (based on what I can see the tang and struts are about 1 inch wide). Was wondering if these struts are there for supporting the heavier part of the blade at the end, because the blade fans out to a lot wider than 1" (1.5" at the guard, 2.5" at the fattest part of the saber). It's not a straight sword, but overall the whole length its about 1/8" except for the tip, about half that.
I'm not that sharp.You must be the only person in America without a magnet on their fridge.
Like I said, it's a practice blade for learning forms like Single Moon Flowing Saber, and basic fencing at a slow pace. Wing Lam Enterprises is known for relatively better quality gear than most "from China", probably one of the best sites online for decent Chinese weapons. Wle.com
This is not "Street Sword quality" for sure. That was a joke at Phil Elmore's expense. Hiya Phil.
I did end up pulling the strongest magnet off my fridge (a Gilley's Boot, mind you, the best I have). There's slight magnetic stick along the blade (not a lot), there's a noticeable increase around the struts and tang. The hilt and pommel, nothing but I think that's because the magnet isn't that strong, and the hilt is very thickly crafted leather (at least 1/2" around, which imho is of decent craftwork, and it's survived decades of sweaty palms).
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I'm not talking about the thickness. I'm talking about the width. From the edge of the blade to the spine, for single edged weapons.
If you can feel them through the leather, then the sword lacks grips. If they took that three-piece sandwich and just wrapped leather around it.... YIKES!
They're almost certainly purely decorative. You don't strengthen that part of the blade by drilling holes in it and cold riveting slabs that don't fit.
Clearly. And for anybody but a huge nerd, I'm sure that's fine.
That's not good. Any decent quality blade is going to grab that magnet at least as well as your fridge does. Titanium isn't magnetic, but it would be absurd to think that your sword is titanium. Stainless steels are mostly magnetic. There are a few non-magnetic variants, but those are austenitic, which means they CANNOT be hardened, and would be absolute **** for a sword. Aluminum is not magnetic...
Like the blade, unless it's aluminum or some such, it should grab that magnet at least as well as your fridge.
Or it's something like vinyl.
So your sword has a partial tang with further details unknown. The blade and pommel are non-magnetic and likely aluminum. The slabs are something ferrous, but exactly what is unknown. The fitment of the hardware could definitely be better. If you were saving it for the Zombie Apocalypse, I'd encourage you to find a better sword. But for forms and that sort of thing, I'm sure it's fine.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I would be very careful about using this sword for any kind of contact training. Even a non-steel, non-sharpened blade can be thin enough to still be sharp enough to do some serious damage if you impact a finger or a hand or a leg. It happens in an instant and always when you are certain you are being absolutely careful. And then it’s too late to undo it.
Wood trainers can be a lot safer if the blade is thick enough and the edge is thickly rounded, to be genuinely not sharp. They can still break fingers though, and can be a dangerous impact weapon. But they need to be made from wood that does not splinter and break on impact, which red oak does and is commonly used for wooden weapons coming from Asia. Those can have flying splinters and sharp shards that are dangerous.
Oily Dragon
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Careful is my middle name.
Dirty Dog do you or does anyone have a really Good Knife Smith you could recommend. I have detailed photos and drawings of the Dao used by a 1880's wing chun practitioner and I would love to have 6 pair of quality knives made based on the photos and drawings.
There are literally thousands. One of the absolute best anywhere is not too far from you. His name is Jay Fisher and you can see his stuff HERE. Another is Jim Hrisoulas. He's a bit further from you, not that it matters today. You can see his work HERE. Jim's personality can seem a bit...abrasive (see what I did there?) at times. But both are brilliant smiths.
Both of these men are full time bladesmiths with decades of experience. But you might want to prepare yourself for sticker shock. Twelve hand made swords made by world class smiths are not going to be cheap.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
These would be butterfly swords I’m thinking, so short, blade length maybe 14 inches, with a D guard. I’m guessing $24k for twelve of them.
Sounds reasonable.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yup, that’s a chunk of money. Would hate to spend so much that I’m afraid to use them for fear of damaging them or having them stolen.
Very true. But those guys both make museum quality weapons. That takes a ton of skill and experience. And Jim is THE man when it comes to damascus and pattern welded blades.He literally (re)invented the wootz casting process, and has a PhD in Metalology. He will be quick to correct you if you say Metallurgy...
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Oh I don’t mean to imply they wouldn’t be worth every penny. Just that, at that price I would hate to damage one.
I'd be terrified. And honestly, I think you might be underestimating the price...
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah, that did occur to me. I can see the value in these things, but for most of us anything in that price range becomes an investment that sits in a vault and never sees light of day. Fear of damaging it, fear of losing it, fear of getting it stolen, all leads to non-use.
At the end of the day, a weapon is a tool and is meant to be used. Being used means it can be damaged or lost or stolen. How much are you willing to lose if that happens? A friend of mine sells high-end pocket knives on his website, from various makers. Some of them are priced in the $1800 range. That seems like a whole lot of money for something I might need for cutting some packaging material in the course of my day. Again, I would be afraid to take it out of the house, or even out of the vault.
I think that is a common concern. I see the same thing with some car folk. How many people buy a Corvette or a Porsche or whatever and leave it parked in a garage all the time, and never touch it except to wipe it down with a cloth diaper.
Me? I'm building the 3rd engine for my Corvette. Bent a valve in the original LS1 racing. Had about 100K on it. Swapped in a heads/cam/blower LS3. Put another 65K on that engine, including at least 400 passes at the drag strip, a couple hundred laps around the local road course, and a couple 4000 mile road trips.
I think the point of having something functional is to use it. Others disagree. Maybe I'd feel differently if it was a $2,000,000 Koenigseggggggggggggg. But I doubt it. If I could afford it to own it, I'd use it.
I've never spent that much on a knife, in large part because I think at some point, the added cost isn't providing any added functionality. My EDC is usually a Benchmade Auto stryker (~$300), a Benchmade Infidel (~$450) or a Microtech Ultratech (~$400). There's also a pattern welded Ultratech that I have been tempted by, but do not own. It's ~$1000. I'm not convinced the pattern welded blade adds $550 worth of functionality.
I don't have the capability of manufacturing the mechanism for an automatic knife. I've made a couple spring-assisted opening knives, but they do not function anywhere nearly as smoothly as the Benchmade spring assisted knives I own. Even something like the locking mechanism for a liner lock is difficult.
So that seems to be my price limit for knives.
Which is one reason I make my own. I make kitchen knives, folders, skinners, that sort of thing, and give them to my family and friends. They're not up to the standard of the best makers, by any means. But they're better than the inexpensive sets most people buy.
