Words Just Fail Me

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

The mentioned guy in TaeKwonDo has judgements against him - from courts of law. No such jugements exsist for RH - until they do, until one of these injured parties has the courage to step up, all you are doing is giving this guy free press - go ahead and start a site - and I bet you will find a libel or slander suit slapped on...

 

[Black Belt FC]

Guess no one wants to touch this one............not even the guys that were Allegedly taken by the great one. What is the point of it all if no one cares to take action?? Nothing........More people will be allegedly taken again in the future....

 

[glad2bhere]

Yeah, I know what you are saying but the dynamic is endemic in the Korean martial arts across the board. Lets face it, most of the people who are involved in the KMA do so from more of a desire for self-defense, immediate gratification, fantasy material or some other reason. When the reason goes away their investment in the KMA goes away. Its not that they are bad people, or shallow or something, its just that there is simply not the investment in Korean culture, traditions, history or practices to make it worth their while to get all hot and bothered about this stuff. Hey I get this feedback all the time --- I mean about how I am just too "heavy" about these matters. Most people just want to get out on the mat and toss people around then go pound some beers. I'm sure they see all of the unfortunate stuff going on and probably wish it wasn't going on but their investment in the KMA as anything more than just an avocation is about all we are going to get.

As far as the commercial people go you would think they would want to protect their interests but the fact is that a successful MA business hangs by the slenderest of threads. Going after some dork who has little to lose and will probably just spout up somewhere else is little motivation for a person to risk several years of building a business. Sad, but true.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

Just saw this over on Budoseek and since it has something of a tie in with this thread, I thought it may be of interest............

1
Lim Teck Wee
Junior Member


Join Date: Dec 2004
Age: 32
Posts: 2 Questions about Master Julian Lim.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lately I have came across this website www.jlim.net. To my shock this man was making a lot of claims out of this world.
I have seen his video clips and was certain shocked that what he shows does not resembles Hapkido at all!!!
I have made a serach about him with the main governing bodies of Korea on Hapkido & TaeKwonDo. It makes my eyes grew wide-open after what I have heard.
According to the certificate of recognition given to him as a KwanJangNim of "SungMooKwan". He claimed that it was the same Kwan own by "GM Ji Han Jae". If you read carefully, the writting in Korean was not the same "Sung Moo Kwan" own by Ji Han Jae. Further to that, there was no specfic evidence that he trained with Ji Han Jae, so why should he have "Sung Moo Kwan" of Ji Han Jae?
According to the certificate of representative. There is a claus and rules of the organisation. If you are representing one organisation, you cannot join or represent another in Korea. Otherwise, the papers given to you is just a piece of toilet paper.
Now he was given KwanjangNim of "ChungDoKwan" TKD. According to what I have gathered was, he tried applying for 8th Dan for ChungDoKwan but was rejected by GM Park Hae Man on the spot while he was in Korea. Instead he was only given 7th Dan and applied for his KwanJangNim status for his own Kwan only.
Many people do not know that even you are given the status of a KwanJangNim of your Kwan, doen't mean that you are able to issue certificate of "ChungDoKwan"; "KHF" or "KIDO" etc. You are only representing them and teaching their syllabus. Instead to my surprised, his gallery clearly shows that there are 3 logos in Hapkido certificate. One "SungMooKwan"; "KHF" and "KIDO". And the TKD certificate has "ChungDoKwan" printed there clearly. This is a total joke and since when you are allowed to join 2 main governing bodies at one time? Unless you go by the back door without them knowing.
The "KHF" & "KIDO" did not know about this untill lately. If am not wrong, they are already going to take some kind of action against him on certain issues.
There was a letter of recognition which he shows saying that he is the only person recognised for "Close Quarter Combat" by KHF. According to my search, KHF did not issue this letter to him at all and they are very angry about it. If you look carefully, any form of letter or certificate must be endorsed by President Oh. As for that letter, it was not by President Oh.
Further to that, his certificate on US Airborne Pathfinder was also a question. If you notice carefully, there is no seal on the certificate at all.
According to my search on him with other Korean Masters in the governing bodies. He is trying to promote his own association "KOMA SEAPAC". As such, he tries to get people to join him and that he they join him, they will be far more prestige then others because he represents both governing bodies of Hapkido in Korea. On top of that, he is able to apply KHF or KIDO certificate for them anytime. Once he gets these people to join him, he can then send the application to KHF or KIDO. This will make KHF or KIDO thinks that he has uncountable numbers of students under his teaching.
Luckily the main governing bodies of Hapkido & TKD already are aware of his doing. Otherwise, many is going to pay for to a man for his skill level is still yet to know.
I am trying to get a video of him taking his test in Korea and was actually failed in the test. I saw it once and my god he looks bad with his techniques. Nothing Hapkido and I do not know what art was that? May be "SucKiDo".
He could not even do a proper 360 degress spinning heel kick and joint lock.
According to my information, someone who got sacked from KHF managed to get the 7th Dan certificate for him. (Not to mention who)
If I managed to get the video, I will show it out in the net to show the world. If he starts talking about Richard hackworth wrong doing, then I think it makes not much difference between himself and Richard Hackworth.

 

[glad2bhere]

Ya' know, if I thought for one minute that such a post would actually help the Hapkido community I would probably show some interest. Having been part of the crap that hit the fan a little while ago all I see, anymore, is just one person calling names at another person. I think, what I am working to say is that if this person who wrote the post had some interest in helping out the Hapkido community maybe he (she?) would be writing on some aspect that they have been researching, or a personality that they have found to be gifted. Instead what we get is more of the same old "pull-the-other-guy-down" stuff. I'm not a big fan of Julian Lim, but how much more of this bickering do we need to hear before someone finally tells these folks to get a life? Its the commercial folks whose financial success depends on reputation. Its the same old "character assassination in a public venue. Can't believe these folks can't do something better for the good of the art. Thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Disco]

It's understandable to have that viewpoint, but there is always something of a positive that can come from these things. Granted, it may not be beneficial to the Hapkido community on one hand but on the other, a possible service is being accomplished. This has been said before, many times probably, but I'll risk repeating it. It's the job of true practicioners to make the way safe for other's. Without honor, humility and trust, there is nothing to safeguard. If what is being said in that post has truth, then truth will be served and people will be protected.

Mike

 

[kwanjang]

I think there is a real problem with the way we communicate these days. It is FAR too easy to assasinate someone's character by just posting your opinion in some forum like this one. I believe it is essential that we, as a martial art community, need to make sure that all opinons are clearly marked as such... JUST AN OPINION.

North-Americans are somewhat conditioned to believe the written word without further investigation, but these days that can have some far reaching implications that may be based on someone's opinion alone. I hope we will be smart enough to realize this. FWIW. I do not know if the things posted are true or not, but let's make sure we advocate that our students look closer before believing all that is written.

Like Bruce, I would like to see more positive things, and fewer negative things. Just the same, I would always appreciate a "heads up" on certain people and/or thing, as long as it is clearly stated as an OPINION rather than being passed off as a fact. In that way, we can investigate further (if it warrants it) and make up our own minds.

 

[Black Belt FC]

Just heard that Hackworth is the re elected US rep for KHF, is this true? He even said that he is on a mission to expose the Hapkido Frauds of the world EH????

 

[American HKD]

Just heard that Hackworth is the re elected US rep for KHF, is this true? He even said that he is on a mission to expose the Hapkido Frauds of the world EH????

What do you mean you just heard?

From what reliable source did you hear these claims, or are you just trying to spread empty humors?

I hope you don't just say stuff like this to try to get people going!

 

[glad2bhere]

Excuse me---- maybe its just me. Why exactly are we giving this guy band-width? Pardon me, if you will, but just take a look at what has JUST happened.

1.) Yet one more time this guy gets his name out in front of the public.

2.) Yet one more time this guy gets an unqualified pairing with the KHF--- though we all know by now that its not THE KHF, still he gets free advertising for his misrepresentation.

3.) Yet one more time something he has said has been propagated to the World and HE gets free publicity.

Now, I don't mind if you want to talk about this embarrassment-to-the-MA-community, but we DO have some unfinished business which I think needs to be cleared up first.

1.) I still have a list of 21 questions which have never been answered.

2.) There are still individuals in South America listed as members of his organization who apparently don't know their names are being used.

3.) There are still the names of people in the States who have reported that they want nothing to do with this person and THEIR names are still coming up on his websites.

Before we give this guy any more "free bandwidth" I suggest we get some closure on these three points first. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Black Belt FC]

What do you mean you just heard?

From what reliable source did you hear these claims, or are you just trying to spread empty humors?

I hope you don't just say stuff like this to try to get people going!

My source informed me that he heard it on his Web program a day ago, so I went there to hear and check it out . Guess what? It's true, he made that claim and many more in fact he mentioned that he will be doing a seminar with you and a Master Son.

Go and hear it for yourself.................

PS Sir I do not involve myself with empty rumors, I have no need or desire to do so.

Lugo

 

[American HKD]

My source informed me that he heard it on his Web program a day ago, so I went there to hear and check it out . Guess what? It's true, he made that claim and many more in fact he mentioned that he will be doing a seminar with you and a Master Son.

Go and hear it for yourself.................

PS Sir I do not involve myself with empty rumors, I have no need or desire to do so.

Lugo

Dear Lugo,

Hackworth just says this stuff but it's all LIES!!!!

My Master has no connection to Hackworth at all, and his brother with Chong Soo Lee told him Hackworth is no good and we will have nothing to do with Hackworth at all.

This is how Hackworth scams people and builds himself up by making false claims that never happen.

Unfortunatly he will sucker people who don't know him and tricks people like your friend and others.

My name is on his website against my will so is Roy Miyahara, Ed Samane, and most of the others.

HE LIES MORE THAN SATAN AND THEY'RE ONE IN THE SAME!

He's a major scam artist

 

[Black Belt FC]

Thank you for info and correction, but at least you know where information came from.



Lugo

 

[shesulsa]

Mod. Note.
Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.

~Georgia Ketchmark~
~MT Moderator~

 

[Terryms]

Dear Kevin:Keep in mind that to take anyone to court over all this requires a lawyer who can cross state lines. That makes it very expensive and difficult to accomplish. I have talked to the Korean Hapkido assoc, and they are adamant about the fact he has defrauded many with fake certs. Add to that the fact he has never done a demo on the internet personally that I can find. It dies raise some flags. Whether he is authentic or not as a practitioner is beside the point here. Trying to sue someone out of state costs more than most can afford, so most will just leave it alone.

I can understand how you might come to such a conclusion. Most people who were on the outside of the events of the last two years or so have the luxury of drawing whatever conclusions that they might care to. Of course, I can't speak to folks who might have been defrauded, or to whats in the hearts of folks to whom positions, standings, rankings and influence might have been misrepresented. For myself I feel a little uncomfortable considering how long things might have continued had not actual insiders been hurt as well as those on the outside of the close-knit circle of friends. To me such things smack of exploitation until such time as one of the exploiters gets burned. Then, and ONLY then does the light get turned on the "chief thief", so to speak.

But lets focus on that other aspect you brought up---- the legality of things. The legal system in the States only promises an OPPORTUNITY for justice. It does NOT promise Justice, itself. With this in mind, most people who are victimized do not have the time, resources, money, assets etc etc to pursue such actions especially when there is not guarentee that the case will a.) come to court and b.) result in a just end. Now if one of the people defrauded is a lawyer, or is close friends with a lawyer the matters of resources and money can be significantly reduced. But as you can see from the start of this string that even if one were to take such a person to task, just like the mail fraud and telephone fraud people, a site simply relocates to another place under another name and begins all over again. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Terryms]

ooopppps, sorry.

You are absolutely correct in what you say. My point was more along the lines of the previous posts. What I meant to say is that just like there are injured folks who do nothing legally, I was pointing out that even on his websites---- when they pop up---- there are still folks being mentioned as being affiliated when they, themselves, have stated openly that they are not. Now I can understand, somewhat, folks not wanting to get wrapped up in legal stuff, but I can't understand why people would continue to allow this person to conduct himself as though he had the support of most practitioners and had only been maligned by a handful of malcontents. His stock-and-trade are illusion. Can't see why anyone would help him with that. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

The legal system makes it very difficult to defend against another who lives out of state. In addition to needing a lawyer qualified to practice in more than one state, it also takes a Federal judge to hear the case. That is going to be expensive. In addition, since we are martial artists, and publicly voice our opinions, we have no expectation of privacy, and slander will happen,whether it is by one or the other. This is why there are so many frauds out there who can get away with anything. Also keep in mind what a martial arts magazine publisher can do to your rep if you do say anything negative. Lots of reasons to keep quiet

 

[Terryms]

The legal system makes it very difficult to defend against another who lives out of state. In addition to needing a lawyer qualified to practice in more than one state, it also takes a Federal judge to hear the case. That is going to be expensive. In addition, since we are martial artists, and publicly voice our opinions, we have no expectation of privacy, and slander will happen,whether it is by one or the other. This is why there are so many frauds out there who can get away with anything. Also keep in mind what a martial arts magazine publisher can do to your rep if you do say anything negative. Lots of reasons to keep quiet

Another thing about this is that, even though there are names mentioned on his site as being on his friends list, there are a number who have told him several times to remove their names, and he refuses to do so. The only way to get it done is to take him to court, again with the same problem

 

[Chris Parker]

11 year old thread, dude… 11 years…

 

[Terryms]

11 year old thread, dude… 11 years…

IT is still going on Chris. The same old battle. same old accusations. Even after 11 years these people still are doing it. . AS for the slander of another , that was done just a few weeks ago.

Dear Lugo,

Hackworth just says this stuff but it's all LIES!!!!

My Master has no connection to Hackworth at all, and his brother with Chong Soo Lee told him Hackworth is no good and we will have nothing to do with Hackworth at all.

This is how Hackworth scams people and builds himself up by making false claims that never happen.

Unfortunatly he will sucker people who don't know him and tricks people like your friend and others.

My name is on his website against my will so is Roy Miyahara, Ed Samane, and most of the others.

HE LIES MORE THAN SATAN AND THEY'RE ONE IN THE SAME!

He's a major scam artist

Even after 11 years, this is still going on, because of our laws there is nothing we can do to stop it. He will do what he is going to do, and he will always have some followers

 

[Terryms]

IT is still going on Chris. The same old battle. same old accusations. Even after 11 years these people still are doing it. . AS for the slander of another , that was done just a few weeks ago.

Even after 11 years, this is still going on, because of our laws there is nothing we can do to stop it. He will do what he is going to do, and he will always have some followers