Women self defense

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Kung Fu Wang, Dec 1, 2020.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    This women self defense clip is quite interested for discussion. She moves her arms outward and against her opponent's 4 fingers on both hands. If she twists her fists to make her palm facing down (knuckles facing up). She then moves her arms inward instead of outward, she only need to deal with her opponent's 1 finger (the thumb) on both arms. Will that be much easier?

    What's your opinion on this?

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  2. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes MT Moderator Staff Member

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    You would be totally correct if this was a standing situation. However since the defender is pinned on the floor, the real challenge is not a matter of beating the the attacker's thumb vs beating their four fingers. The challenge is beating the structure which allows the attacker to rest his weight through his straight arms onto the defender's wrists to pin her.

    Your proposed alternative of moving her arms inward runs into two major obstacles. Firstly moving her arms inward puts them in a position where the attacker actually has an even better structure for transmitting his weight downward into them. Secondly, unless she has remarkable shoulder flexibility the inward path will actually involve attempting to lift her hands off the ground at some point, which means she would need the strength to lift the attacker's weight using just her arms (and at an awkward angle to boot).

    The defense shown in the video clip is not focused on breaking the attackers grip. It's focused on moving his hands outwards and towards his feet so that he can no longer rest his weight on them. As shown, this usually leads to him letting go of her wrists so he can catch himself and not face plant. For her follow up she will most likely use one arm to hug his body close so he can't posture up and strike her, use the other arm to overhook one of his arms, capture his ankle with her own foot on the same side as the overhooked arm, then bridge and roll to reverse the attacker and end up on top. (There are other possible follow ups, but that is the one this particular instructor teaches as the first go-to option.)
     
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  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The concept of forcing the thumb to maintain the grip is sound but not in this situation. The structure is different. The thing that is actually causing the release here seems to be disrupting balance and limitations on the range of motion. She would have a chance as long her attacker focused only on downward pressure.

    Out of curiosity I tried to escape from this situation just so I can get feel of what the forces were. The first thing I tried were techniques where I can force the thumb to maintain the grip, I couldn't find a technique that would give me leverage. The only thing that seem to work was anything that disrupted the balance. Anything that forced me to push directly against the bodyweight pushing down on my arms was a bust.

    I was able to create a stalemate which allowed me to roll out of it, to be honest I think I pretty much roll out of all of it once I created the imbalance. The closet that I could get to any the escapes that I use while standing was possible wrist grab and a "crocodile roll," meaning that when I get hold of the wrist then I would just do fast roll to the opposite side of the hand that I grabbed. Grabbing the wrist seems to prevent the attacker from escaping the roll or going along with the roll. If I don't grab the attacker's wrist then I risk rolling under the attacker and giving my back

    Some required more strength than others, the easy ones were the ones that created 2 points of imbalance, Creating just one point of balance allows my attacker to adjust and regain balance.

    Out of the 15 things that I tried and knew of. None of them allowed me to force the thumb to maintain the grip. There was more downward pressure to deal with than grip strength.
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think fighting against the grip in this scenario is the wrong move, especially when the grip isn't what is preventing movement.

    I watched the actual video and it was a series of structure breaks. The first was to cause an imbalance in structure, the second was to cause an improper lift. The last part was another imbalance and then a role. The "What next" was either another attack on balance or and attack on lifting structure. Definitely not a weekend self-defense class technique.
     
  5. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    It's a pretty common tactic against someone in mount and resting on your hips. Never really seen this variation with both wrists pinned, but it makes sense. When you get bumped like this your first reaction IS to brace yourself so you don't face plant.

    Interestingly, he's grapevining her legs, which actually restricts his forward motion and keeps him attached. If his hooks weren't in (more likely for an untrained person), he'd actually get bumped further forward.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
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  6. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    Yeah, this lesson is part of a curriculum that's taught as an ongoing weekly class. I've personally been thinking a bit about training to be certified to teach it.123
     
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