Wing Tsun Vs Modern Arnis

[ArnisNewbie]

Hello

this is my first post on this forum...and i don't know if this subject has been discussed before if so could you give me a link....

but my question is....i have a friend who trains Wing Chun and he show me how it worked...and i found that it seemed to be pretty hard to break their attacks...and they dominate the center line very good...
my questions is then...in a hand to hand combat...without an equalizer what techniques would be the best to counter an agressive attack from a Wing chun fighter...i know they have some weaknesses like they don't like clinch..but how do you get in clinch when you get chain punches in your face the whole time...

to finish...i know that no martial art is better than another and so on and it the person...but i am just curious...

"The difference between the living and the dead is timing"

 

[ArnisNewbie]

Hmmm is this question of no interest or is it too hard to answer...someone must know something...i mean there is a lot of experienced people in here

 

[someguy]

running is a good option

 

[sercuerdasfigther]

deal with their attack as if it is a diagnaol forehand , either block insde or parry to the outside. work zoning foot work to get off center then jam the arm and attack.

 

[Tapps]

Triangular footwork ...... and keep moving

 

[ArnisNewbie]

Cool Thanx for the reply guys

i hope i can use this in praksis now...I really like arnis...but i still have a lot to learn....

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Hit them with a stick!

 

[someguy]

Depends on the system of wing chun they use.
btw Renegade bring a big stick after me and ill get an even bigger on. Then you must get a bigger stick to beat me and i'll then have to get a bigger stick to beat you. In the end we will play bugs bunny and Yosimite Sam but with sticks.

 

[Cruentus]

You can very tricky with your trapping hands.

You can do things like baiting him. This is basically where you get your opponent to try to execute a parry, grab, attack, or what have you, so you can effectively counter. An example of this is I have my hand up, but my left hand is centered and more forward then my right. I can move my left closer to him to cause him to try to slap my left hand down to execute an attack. I recognize his attempt, so BEFORE he makes contact on the parry of my left hand, then I move my left so his parry never makes contact while striking an opening (left or right, doesn't matter). Another example is I purposely leave an opening that I believe he'll take, so I can appropriately counter.

Fainting is more fun. This is where you throw a strike which causes him to react (block). Before he is able to complete his action, you abort the technique to execute another. An example of this is you throw a right hand backfist to his head. If he doesn't block, you follow through and hit him in the head. If he does move his left to parry, lets say, you abort the technique before he makes contact with the parry, circle your right behind the left, slapping the left parry hand down while simultaniously striking with your left.

You can utilize the slipping or dodging techniques. Basically, if you usually parry with your hands, he'll be expecting you to execute a block or parry when he strikes at your head. Instead of blocking, you slip. He was waiting to "feel" your block or make contact, when he doesn't get either result, there is lag time. During this lag time, you are striking.

Utilize the blast or "straight blast." Your action time is faster then his reaction. So when his hands are in a transition, just punch him striaght through his guard.

Utilize "the draw," "the crowd," or "the space disruption." This is where you draw your opponent into you, or crowd him so he moves away, or just outright disrupt his space so he is out of his comfort zone in relationship to you. In any of these cases, your causing your opponent to have to restablish his stance or space, causing a transitionary period. You are more able to strikehim during this period. So, If he is a defensive player especially, then you want to draw him out of his comfort zone. You can do this best throught footwork, but not just retreating back per say. You want to step off his line (triangle stepping) causing him to have to readjust his stance and body position to get back into his "comfort zone." when he is readjusting, your striking. You can also make yourself appear to your opponent as if you are further away then you are, or closer then you are, through your stance and body height; just be careful of the grion shot in the deeper stances. You can stay just a hair out of his range most of the time, causing him to have to attempt to close the gap if he likes to be closer to control you. The bottom line is, your disrupting his balance and space so you can strike him when he has to readjust his position.

You can also do "the grapple." THis isn't wrestling per say, you are just disrupting your opponents strategy by grabing his hand(s) and wrists. when he tryes to shake your grab, or use your grab against you, you let go and strike.

"Limb destructions" are great too. If your opponents hands and arms are an obstical for you when you are attacking his head, just hit his arms and hands. Limb attacks can be very painful. Attack the back of hit hand, fingers, elbows. nerves, wrists, etc.

Bottom line: there are tons of things you can do when playing with anyone! I think it would be more helpful if you could illustrate what techniques and strategies your wing chun friend is using thats giving you trouble. We may be able to better help that way.

PAUL

 

[ArnisNewbie]

Hey Paul

thanx for your quick and very detailed reply...i really learned something from it
I love to spar and i know in relation to my friend i am inferior...he is 12 apprentice degree and i am a white belt in arnis...but i have trained a lot of other martial arts...but i mean that every time you suffer a defeat you gain something...new experience and if you reflect on this you wil become a better fighter...i really love Arnis because the style reflects your personality...and not the opposite.

but if i experience more trouble i will let you guys know...

i know i lack the routine..but i think it is fun anyway......


When there is freedom from mechanical conditioning, there is simplicity. The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow - you are not understanding yourself. (Bruce Lee)

 

[Cruentus]

i mean that every time you suffer a defeat you gain something.

Exactly...a successful man is a man who can learn from failure or defeat.

Just keep training...it'll come!

 

[brothershaw]

In response to the initial question/post
A good or experienced wing chun practitioner should/ would have alot more in his arsenal than chain punches. My point is not that a good wing chun person is unbeatable, but just because we train chain punches dont expect that to be what you get in a fight
Its a training tool.
My impression from alot of posts and talking with other martial artists is that most people dont have much of a clue about wing chun other than center line, chain punches and bruce lee.There are all manner of strikes, traps, and leg attacks, and so on. Sorry this turned into a rant. Good luck with the modern arnis.

 

[brothershaw]

Also attacking the center doesnt mean you have to come up the middle ( front) it can be attacked from any angle.

 

[Cruentus]

Originally posted by brothershaw
In response to the initial question/post
A good or experienced wing chun practitioner should/ would have alot more in his arsenal than chain punches. My point is not that a good wing chun person is unbeatable, but just because we train chain punches dont expect that to be what you get in a fight
Its a training tool.
My impression from alot of posts and talking with other martial artists is that most people dont have much of a clue about wing chun other than center line, chain punches and bruce lee.There are all manner of strikes, traps, and leg attacks, and so on. Sorry this turned into a rant. Good luck with the modern arnis.

I agree with everything your saying, and I will reinerate that I do not do Wing Chun, and my knowledge of the art is limited. From what I have seen, though, is that Wing Chun appears to a be a complete art with a lot more then Chain punches in the arsenal, as well as Modern Arnis is a complete art. As with most arts, it is more of a matter of who is the better practitioner, not one art vs. the other as the title of the thread might imply.

However, certian things are going to be universal regardless of what you study. It's all the same. My previous response was in regards to some strategies that might be useful.

 

[brothershaw]

My post wasnt meant to be a rip of you or anybody else paul, your stuff makes sense. Its just that if i hear one more person say wing chun chain punches I am going to turn into the incredible hulk. lol. try saying that 5 times fast.

 

[ArnisNewbie]

Hey

thanx for the answers...

hmm i know that you can't put one art up against another...it was just as a provocation...anyway i see martial arts as a tool and it is up to the person who has the tool how he puts is to use...be it Wing Chun, Arnis, Kenpo, Aikido...all martial arts has proven their worth in historiy and if they did function they would not have survived as a system....

but all systems have flaws and weaknesses...that is why i love to crosstrain...because then you discover and learn at the same time......

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by someguy
Depends on the system of wing chun they use.
btw Renegade bring a big stick after me and ill get an even bigger on. Then you must get a bigger stick to beat me and i'll then have to get a bigger stick to beat you. In the end we will play bugs bunny and Yosimite Sam but with sticks.

I'll get you from long range:

First :snipe:


Then :xwing:

Finally
:redeme:




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Tapps
Triangular footwork ...... and keep moving

Yes, trying to zone outside is a good idea--they tend to emphasize staright-down-the-center, so angle outside.

If you're caught in tight, remember your limb destructions! Let them punch you in the elbow.

 

[Tapps]

Hit them with a stick!

This is Renegade’s answer to most problems.

Fighting, balancing his checking account, buying girl scout cookies.

It's an all-encompassing philosophy

 

[Toasty]

Paulie...
How's it going man?

You are not really telling him to attempt to beat a Wing Chun guy with Mod. Arnis style trapping hands are you?!
Wing chun specializes in trapping hands (and legs & body for that matter) and has for several hundred years.
I would think that Mod. Arnis must have other things in its arsenal to compete against a trapping specialist. Perhaps the joint locking & throws?


later dude
Rob