Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by KPM, Jun 15, 2017.
Nevermind. Refreshed, clicked it again, and it's working now.
As a wing chun - boxing / punching thread... I am posting it: Since many stated lately that throwing non-straight punche makes you a heretic Wing Chunner. And actually you are not doing Wing Chun but Jeet Kune Do or boxing. Finaly it seems it is pure Wing Chun - and not only Bruce Lee was doing it. So i am coming back to the point: "Wing Chun people have stuck in training principles which are definitely useful, but have made themselves very narrow minded".
It is supposed to be a challenge fight. It is basically two untrained guys swinging with their eyes closed.
That if everyone you spar is crap. That does not make you good.
That challenge matches, sparring and live resistance can sound like one thing and mean something else.
And these are important distinctions to make if you ever want to use martial arts for fighting.
And as a side note when people say it is not the style it is the individual. It is a saying that probably comes out of these environments where style isn't really achieving much.
Because linear punches are used in the WC forms. If you can add circular punching combo into your WC form, the next WC generation will never have this concern any more.
You have said this numerous times and I've (attempted to) corrected you numerous times.
WC has hook punches and uppercuts.
Besides linear punch such as jab and cross, I agree that WC also has uppercut, and side punch.
In the following clip,
- Uppercut exists in the 2nd WC form (3.21, 3.33).
- Side punch exists in the 2nd WC form (2.47, 3.10).
But in those 3 forms, I can't find the hook, hammer fist, overhand, back fist, and spiral punch?
Among those 9 punching tools, I can only find 4 punching tools used in the WC system. I cannot find the other 5 tools.
It doesn't matter whether a tool exists in WC or not. As long as you add it into WC. the next WC generation will have it.
IMO, it's very easy to add those missing tools into those already existed 3 WC forms.
Here's a link to a thread on wing chun hook punch
Are you talking about the circular arms movement at the end of this 2nd WC form?
No. The hook is in the 3rd form, Biu Tze.
It is after the double grab at the end of the form just before the big circular movements.
Incidently, the hacking elbows of the 2nd form is another place that has the hoo punch mechanics.
This is interested. It was not in the 3rd WC form that I have learned.
I can only find hook punch used in this clip.
I can't find hook punch used in these clips.
The biu tze I learned is from Leung Ting lineage....the first video.
May be he added it in? He made a good contribution if that was what he did.
I still remember Leung Ting came to Austin, Texas the same year as I invited my SC teacher to come to Austin back in 1980.
I think that's about the time Geezer started training with him.
I have a book that shows Yip man's students from fat Shan going through that form and I'm pretty sure the hook punch is in there as well.... I'm unable to verify though because apparently I Iloaned that book to someone and I have no idea where it is
When he moves both feet in outward circles (6.03 - 6.06), he starts a new section of his form.
If you add an extra section into this form to include hammer fist, spiral punch, over hand, back fist, the length of the form may increase a bit. But no information will be lost.
A + B > A
Yep. On his first trip to teach in the US Leung Ting arrived and met with my Si-hing in California, then came to Arizona where I began training and then continued on to Texas. I'm not sure what other stops he made on that trip. Been a while.
Yep...agreed. 2nd and 3rd forms. There are many many striking options if one dissects the weapons forms too.
@Kung Fu Wang you've mentioned several different punches that you'd like to see "added" to the wing chun system. I'd challenge you to look more closely at the wing chun forms. There are actions/motions in the forms which, when a "fist" is formed, can increase the variations of striking options. (Hint: practice your knife form if you know it...but remove the knives and ball up your fists.)
Also, you stated that wc has "linear" punches. Yes, this is true. But it is also more broadly applied. If you study the motions (aka the little idea) of the "punches" in the forms, you will see what this "linear" is trying to impart to the practitioner.
The thing about Wing Chun punching is, never lock the elbow with full extension, because arm breaking is seriously taught in all Chinese styles. The power is internal and close range, so all fighting techniques are close range and centerline, which means aimed at the body's center, not the front of the chest. Real fighting is nothing at all like chi sau. As Dr. Henry Leung used to say, this the school way, the other is the outside way (on the street). Henry's half-brother Duncan Leung made a point of teaching his students to fight kickers, boxers, etc, so they wouldn't be surprised in a real fight. The best gungfu student I ever knew was thrown on his *** by a wrestler. All fighting styles are great, it's up to the fighter to adapt to the situation, which is why Duncan taught that way. His Chinese name was Leung Siu-heng; Henry's was Leung Hung-li, I believe. Henry also had a Buddhist name, Chi-man, and his own teacher was named Man-chi (Gow-jee Fu-sao, the Buddhist abbot also named Hsueh Yuen). Henry said these meant, first get the money, then get smart, and first get smart, then get the money. Poor old Henry was not only an amazing martial artist, but a tremendous physician also. He could heal anyone but himself, hence the old saying.
You could only hook when within your opponent's guard, but your hand should be close to his centerline. If necessary to hit him directly you still could, but remember hooks are easy to block, hence the center punch is the only one taught. You could also hit with one of the different shaped fists, but that's not really necessary, hence also not taught. I have all this from Dr. Henry Leung. Different teachers were taught by different teachers, and some didn't go in the temple door, so to speak. Some of the best teachers have always been informal ones, who just wanted good and quick results. The old guys wanted you paying dues and working for free for decades. It's a racket, but also the teacher can then see what the student's character is really like. Some people should never be taught to hurt others with this art.123
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