Pin Sun Wing Chun & Wing Chun Boxing

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by KPM, Oct 8, 2017.

  1. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    Hey Guys!

    The Wing Chun Boxing thread was getting rather long and cumbersome. So I thought I would start a new thread. I have put up a couple of lessons that show...first....how Pin Sun Wing Chun is organized in a "modular" fashion and is not just a "collection of drills" as some have tried to say. Secondly, they show how I have been incorporating the movements and concepts from Pin Sun Wing Chun into my Wing Chun Boxing.




     
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  2. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    You just show a good example that "straight punch" is not always faster than "circular punch". Sometime when you use

    - "straight punch", your opponent's arm is in your striking path.
    - "circular punch", you can get around your opponent's arm.

    At 4.30, Your opponent uses his right hand to parry down your left arm.

    1. You borrow his force, rotate your arm with him.
    2. You then tap on his right arm, and
    3. straight punch back at him.

    Your step 2 is a very important skill used in wrestling "grip fight" that your opponent tries to grab your wrist, you rotate your arm, and grab his wrist instead.

    But for the striking art, step 2 may give your opponent extra time to react (when you make 1 move, your opponent will also respond with 1 move). If you can move from 1 to 3, spin your arm and clockwise hay-maker (or hook punch) at your opponent's head, you may knock your opponent down right there. Without step 2, the straight punch may not be possible.

    IMO, step 2 is a bit too conservative. If you are worrying about his free right arm at step 2, your clockwise hay-maker (or hook punch) can take care that already.

    You may just demonstrate a WC technique in your clip. Here is a good comparison that

    - your WC technique "circular arm, tap, straight punch" requires 3 steps.
    - a non-WC technique "circular arm, hay-maker" only requires 2 steps.

    If the result is the same that you knock your opponent down anyway, 2 steps process is faster than 3 steps process.

     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  3. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    ^^^^ I agree completely John! But that's a subject for another lesson! ;) But I'm primarily showing how that San Sik translates to a boxing application directly as it is taught in the classical Pin Sun Wing Chun. The "step 2" is extra insurance to make sure you aren't going to get clocked by his own "touch and go" punch! Sure, it can be skipped and can go directly to the punch! That's the nice thing about the San Sik. You can dissect them in multiple ways to see different applications. :)
     
  4. Martial D

    Martial D 2nd Black Belt

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    I love what you are doing man, I really do. I'd like to see how it fares against a resisting opponent though.

    The thing about these human mannequin demonstrations is that you can do literally anything, there's no indication of realism.
     
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  5. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    Thanks man! But keep in mind these are instructional videos. You can't demonstrate something well so someone can learn it well when doing it against someone that is trying to STOP you from doing it! ;) Sparring videos will come later.
     
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  6. Parky

    Parky Yellow Belt

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    A big thumbs up for having the confidence to put yourself out there on video and explain what you are doing.

    But since you put yourself out there I have to say something. I'm not sure that the black socks work with blue tennis shoes. EVERY TIME I wear something like that my daughter refuses to be around me, or claim to know me. Seeing your video I'm thinking she may be right...ha...ha. Cheers!
     
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  7. Martial D

    Martial D 2nd Black Belt

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    True. What you could do is a hybrid sort of drill/demonstration. What I mean by this is let him throw...say..the hook, but instead of doing the old super slow motion/leave the arm out there as you do this that and the other thing, get him to throw a real hook, at real speed, and demonstrate the counter to it in real time.

    Again, not hating, or criticizing, I just think that (for people like me at least) it would make for more hard hitting(pun intended) material :)
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Senior Master

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    For instruction video, it may be better to look at a technique from 2 opposite angles.

    1. You have

    - Your opponent parries your arm, you respond to it.

    2. May be you should also include

    - You parry your opponent's arm, he responds, you then respond to his respond.

    IMO, 2 > 1.

    Your don't have to wait for your opponent to attack you. You can always attack first.
     
  9. DanT

    DanT Brown Belt

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    Looks similar to the Wing Chun I do. Great stuff.
     
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  10. TMA17

    TMA17 Yellow Belt

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    Excellent!
     
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  11. Jim Roselando

    Jim Roselando White Belt

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    This is mainly Cheung's TWC body & movement fused with some quickly learned Pin Sun. Some things never change.
     
  12. DanT

    DanT Brown Belt

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    I also recognize the TWC movement. Pin Sun, being one of the few Wing Chun lineages I haven't studied, is difficult for me to see. Nonetheless I still like many of the applications KPM is demonstrating. Also if you are a new member, it's wise (but not required) to create a thread introducing yourself.
     
  13. Jsunlx

    Jsunlx White Belt

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    Check his previous postings. He already has introduced himself.
     
  14. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    You know as well as I that it wasn't "quickly learned." And just where do you see TWC movement in the Pin Sun sets I am showing, other than the opening of the stance? I don't like the "swivel", so what?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017 at 5:33 AM
  15. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    You are probably picking up on the side step and angling in the Wing Chun Boxing. Yes, that is definitely something valuable that I learned from TWC! The Pin Sun is not difficult to see at all! The short sets I show are Pin Sun, the organization from short solo set to 2 man set to dummy set is how Pin Sun is organized. Leung Jan himself is supposed to have said that Pin Sun Wing Chun is the same as other Wing Chun, just taught in a different format.
     
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  16. DaveB

    DaveB 2nd Black Belt

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    Perhaps I would need to see your other videos (I've only seen the first on this thread and one or two older) but I'm not sure what makes this wing chun boxing as opposed to just practical application of wing chun?

    Everyone should know that forms are dead templates that carry the ideas behind the style. Mobility and fluidity and an awareness of potential responses to your movements are vital components in translating template movements to reality and that seems to be what your doing.

    It's good stuff, but not sure what boxing adds?
     
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  17. DanT

    DanT Brown Belt

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    What I mean is, I can recognize the TWC, but I'm not familiar enough with Pin Sun to recognize its flavour.
     
  18. DanT

    DanT Brown Belt

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    To a certain extent Dave I agree, as the Wing Chun I was taught, when expressed in a fluid and free manner, is very similar to this. Nonetheless, I really enjoy the videos, and think the applications are good.
     
  19. DanT

    DanT Brown Belt

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    Must have missed it. My bad.
     
  20. Jim Roselando

    Jim Roselando White Belt

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    KPM wrote:


    You know as well as I that it wasn't "quickly learned." And just where do you see TWC movement in the Pin Sun sets I am showing, other than the opening of the stance? I don't like the "swivel", so what? KPM


    You asked what was changed? Just watch the first clip and set, Jut Choi. It's basically a TWC version and not Pin Sun..... I didn't need to watch more than a few minutes to see that.....

    Keith, just be honest. You visited me on 2.5 occassions over a few years and then maybe a decade later you visited Marc a couple of times. Yes, a couple of weekends of training is learning something quickly.

    Think about this, if the average person attended two or three classes per week, you essentially had two weeks of actual training over a decade. That's the totality of your Pin Sun experience even tho you seem to enjoy this facade you created about being an 'instructor under Mui'. Mui Sifu never once touched your hands to coach or train you......

    In Mui's Martial Art Association you are ranked 'Jr Instructor' under Mark K. You were given permission to start a study group but actually have no permission to teach. Ten years ago you were doing the same nonsense. As I said, something's don't change.....
     
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