Why Silat?

[infinite beginner]

I don't know, but a moment seems to fill a substantial amount of time with the jurus in particular an elbow, slash and an uppercut can easily fit into one beat on the surface, but the jurus are head to toe motions so maybe a dozen actual motions can be produced in a moments time motions that are hard to notice but are there to back up the mechanic's of the strikes, like first I used to think there was x amount of motions in jurus one then y amount then z amount now I could not tell you , of even the simplest one

 

[infinite beginner]

silat is so much infighting, using so many very small precise motions, someone would almost have to be a fool to call themselves a serious practitioner, and not be able to be subtly training something or another in nearly all their spare time, and I air this, as more a rhetorical reminder than I'd care to admit

 

[RZaeem]

Like mmhafiz, I also learn Silat Cekak Ustaz Hanafi


In this silat
- there is 21 buah, no bunga, no tari
- only one stance, the neutral stance where the pesilat just stand up straight and waits for attacks.
- no sidestepping to dodge. all buahs are done in a way you can advance forward. no backing off. hence very effective in tight spaces e.g. corridors, aeroplane, ship,
- parrying techniques based on salaah (muslim prayer). The kaedah A, B, C, D based on Du'a, Qiam, Ruku', and Takbeer respectively.

- from the parrying techniques it extends into 20 different buah
- learning the buahs has 3 stage - Peringkat Asas (Basic), Jatuh (Takedown), Potong (Recounter - countering if your opponent attacked with a silat cekak's buah).
- the nature of silat is defensive, most of the time you wait to be attacked and simultaneously parry and execute your buah. "cekak menyerang, cekak menangkap"
- since it's defensive silat basically there's no sparring (since neither side will attack)

- if in real fight you desperately need to attack, use buah number 21, Buah Serang, which will sure-hit the opponent even if blocked or dodged (unless the opponent also practice Silat Cekak, he knows how to counter) “Jika elak pasti kena, dan jika tepis pasti dimakannya."
- to learn this silat you must be a muslim.



The good thing about this silat style is its simplicity and effectiveness, also the training duration is quite short, that is 6-8 months, with two 2-hour session a week (4 hours per week),
This silat greatly emphasizes using attacker's momentum to counter and clever use of leverage. Many takedowns and locks are done with simple push to back of knees.

After you finish the 21 buah syllabus, there is Peringkat Umum (General Stage), where you are taught to defend against other martial arts e.g. other silats, Tae kwon do, Judo, Tomoi (a muay thai-like art), etc.
Also defense against weapons (knives, katana, sticks, etc), ground fighting are taught here.


http://psscutmjb.tripod.com/sistem.htm

 

[tiga]

Training is 6-8 months with 4 hours per week?? How much can you learn in such a short period? Or do you mean you learn the whole syllabus is learned in this period and from there the actual training starts?

 

[RZaeem]

yes it is 4 hours per week. the syllabus itself is quite short compared to other silats.

6-8 months from start to finish for learning all buahs. Then basically you're done.
after that there's optional additional training

 

[tiga]

yes it is 4 hours per week. the syllabus itself is quite short compared to other silats.

6-8 months from start to finish for learning all buahs. Then basically you're done.
after that there's optional additional training

I assume that that is just the beginning of the journey. Most people with only that amount of training are not skilled yet. Is there any curriculum or specific training to enhance your abilities afterwards or is that just up to the practitioner himself?

 

[infinite beginner]

there's some great silat on the web
I like to freeze the frame in different
places and just ponder the counters
and then some silat looks great, at first
though done in a few seconds, as they
enter, and shift from position to position,
but the real visual efficiency of their moves
shows through ,when stopped in all their tracks.

as we would be free flowing through techniques when
he saw what we were doing was using too much
motion , my teacher would often say what's the other hand
doing taking a vacation ?

 

[tiga]

there's some great silat on the web
I like to freeze the frame in different
places and just ponder the counters
and then some silat looks great, at first
though done in a few seconds, as they
enter, and shift from position to position,
but the real visual efficiency of their moves
shows through ,when stopped in all their tracks.

as we would be free flowing through techniques when
he saw what we were doing was using too much
motion , my teacher would often say what's the other hand
doing taking a vacation ?

Although I agree, i do think that movies on the web can be misleading. For instance, filming a training or seminar, an instructor is explaining while showing applications. This changes the sharpness in the movement since you are also busy with looking at other people and talking.

 

[infinite beginner]

as the whole body is weaponized the whole body is targeted

in silat don't we strike as a rule strike the closest target with the

closest weapon at hand be that hand a knee a foot if our jurus

teach us to destroy anything that comes within our close comfort zone

and if a strike is already in motion, ,they are first presenting us in our

opinion, either a weapon or a target its both but why let all those close

up smashing juru motions sit on the shelf when the counter is more a bad

attitude to demolish more than deflect their extending weapon that's why

in silat we have joint offensive bone breaking blocking. a punch is a fist


but there's only a few surfaces that aren't fragile and the thumb is never safe

 

[infinite beginner]

They say, if a burglar wants to break into your house

bad enough, there is no stopping them. and once inside, so

goes certain strategies of striking, that is, to see on the

opponent, particular points of interest, then being

bound and determined, to hit those body shot spots

eventually if not initially, whether they are open or

not, if they might suddenly put up something obstruct

the path so what, that gets smashed as anything put between

the target is also the target , the jurus have us waving flailing

flapping every direction under the sun in a flow ,but breaking

it all down, each small motion, has its beginning middle and end

and knowing our jurus means from all the in between points,

no position can ever feel to awkward to not produce,from all angles

very powerful short strikes, . the jurus are also there to teach how to

empower the structure from most any location or position ,take the late great

joe lewis his amazing backhand side kick, was like his jurus, meaning he

worked these moves millions of times, till he could throw a full blast side kick

at one target, see at the last moment, it was going to be blocked or evaded

and shift redirecting his full impact accordingly so it came from out of nowhere ,

we can't do that ,he found a good thing that perfectly suited his structure and

with about eight hours a day training it, brought it to perfection ,never seen

his sidekick had a beginning middle and end, but it also had allot of unseen

in be tweens,

 

[infinite beginner]

silat is so deep cultural and traditional, a decade will only get your feet wet
in the overall understandings, but as a result of playing one and only form of
silat for a while, I look at all the hundreds of silat styles shared silat I see
and I say yeah that looks kind of familiar and some of it real familiar
thinking we do that exact same whatever ,a little different principles
of course, but the forms and structures, are always, crisscrossing stepping
and blending ,

earlier I mentioned I found it interesting to watch the posted
videos sometimes, frame by frame, for educational purposes but for
entertainment its full speed all the way, and so many now far too many
to watch ,some may just play for the camera what they show but some are
nothing less than awe striking in their abilities, I guess the new point could
be the threads of similarity, are so similar, as far as the tools universally
incorporated into the forms , particularly all the crouched, twisted, side
stepping and extending, of the arm out allot ,all of which are done with good
reason or reasons ,that convert odd postures into spring loaded balance
smashing leverage machines,

but to see the players out in the jungles
swinging their live blades, that they know, so well, inches from each other
while executing takedown techniques in real time, now that's some real
focused high intensity playing with danger training, by any standard
so ,no matter the style we can only be as realistically good at it ultimately as the
intensity in which we train, do we often feed a punch to our partner like
they are our sworn enemy determined to take our life

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Love Maul Mornie's SSBD material.

Check out a recent post on:

The Instinctive Edge

 

[infinite beginner]

It seems to me that the short strikes are the real gold in the art
where the limb doesn't travel very far, but its all in the structures
and also I watched allot of little street fights on the web today

and occurs to me, they don't feed correctly, ,everyone knows
they are supposed to corkscrew punch exactly chin level lunging in
deep with the same foot , but those who didn't get the memo just
seemed to run all goofy stepped behind their fists, thinking look at

all the football fields full of techniques silat teaches ,and then how all these
wrong punchers running in so fast behind their fist numb to common sense
leaving no time for our technique cause we are left too busy trying to correct
the attackers sloppy entry mistakes for this reason most full motions are almost obsolete,
if we open a non contact fighting school ,who would train ,point being there's theory but comprehensive application of "technique" can't happen until there is connection
besides we have no want to go be having to apply "techniques" in real situations
or techniques are like the spoils in a piñata but you gotta first break the piñata if
a fist is flying in we have two choices get hit or hit and we don't want to get hit of course there is blocking, but its just never by choice

 

[infinite beginner]

I could be wrong, but the traditional players, seem to all have the fighting music
in their training where one might develop around the other more but I'm not
sure which order,that is who is most entranced, as everyone moves to the rhythms
broken tempos as if the drums were leading the practitioners every movement

this maybe ingrains a patience in motion, that space of stillness between the drumbeats
is automatically incorporated into their motions, even if its two full notes and a sixteenth note pause between its still there, maybe the music is to split the instant ,I don't know what all is being missed practicing jurus with out that traditional playing ,I'm thinking its easy to find out too late it's put there to prevent and correct mistakes of movement along the path
of ingraining the art ,and that without the music could it be fairly compared to someone doing jazzercise without the jazz we know its crucial but how crucial and I'm sure the time signature of the music has to match the timing signature of the system I guess
what tops my topical concern here is, can training jurus without the drums guidance actually impair dilute delete and hurt the training in the irreversible sense of loading all those empty air repetitions without the traditional broken background timing provided by the martial musicians ,or rather to what detrimental degree its like if when you were a kid and a golden gloves champion showed you how to throw a jab and you threw thousands

till you were so proud, but then your dad is like ricky recardo knows everyone and Mohamed Ali come over and shows you his jab method, now you gotta unlearn and
unload what the novice advice has ingrained

 

[infinite beginner]

silat seems to me to be unique, in that all the less necessary
moves are so wide and long yet all the more necessary moves
are short and tight . why all those huge flowery motions many
must wonder , can't we just practice the fast close up combative
snappy chops and bone breaks, its like saying, can't we just ride
the unicycle from a tricycle before we even can put training wheels on
a two wheeler, just like the bike provides the learning skills a trike can't
produce,or in other words the smaller motions all derive from the
bigger motions, most silat I've seen prides itself on its point blank
explosiveness its like picking up a blank yard stick and then slowly
the smallest increments of measurements begin to appear , also its
simple physics, like if one wishes to have faster low kicks one practices
high kicking, in the big motions there is obvious natural power, that the littler
motions bring in develop and recreate through refining and fine tuning
body mechanics

 

[infinite beginner]

Its like if someone is new to the game of pool ,its all they
can do to pocket the designated number they aim for, but
the real game within the game, is the placement of the cue
ball in relation to the next shot , like hitting the target is just
the beginning the bigger solution is in the set up, obviously
we strike high science tells us upon connection the target
goes back ,until they have closed in why would anyone then
ever seek to aim two hits high in there practice , how can one
charge in with full force and run their opponent down, unless
they know where they will be ,throws, locks, and sweeps, are
fun to execute, like they are front and center, when in reality
the strikes are, dare I say ninety percent of the game, but
we can't palm chins chop throats and crack ribs with elbows
in practice , so in class we use techniques to take them down
and they have to take our word , some where in between we
tore off an ear, buried a thumb in the eye , or pulled their
head smack into our terrifying flying guillotine elbow, but the
techniques are so challenging taking forever to pull off, in just
the right flow, getting inside their energy, and redirecting their force
at just the right degree of angle so that its effortless.
nothing can be more excruciatingly difficult, than applying
an effortless maneuver on a skilled less than fully cooperative
subject .but yet why the teachers have no problem , because
they are pounding out and throughout the technique , they are
never busy reaching for a limb to twist lock, bar or throw
no they are manipulating them into these positions with
a series of strikes , that even the greatest techniques can
be seen as only hollow skeletons without,

 

[infinite beginner]

isn't martial arts, really all about secrecy and selling mystery who can say they know a system, handed down from one to the next , as if it were a textbook no its more like, only the foundation, and the framework, might survive the transition,
because knowing a system, is exactly like knowing a particular alphabet, in the sense that a-z represents all the teachers material, techniques, curriculum, etc. you can have all the material, or you can
own it , as angelo dundee had all of ali's material ,but it was by comparison nothing in his hands ,when students start an art ,all their uniforms, are alike as they all just have a pile of worthless rags on their backs , that can't by all its contents collective represent the system, in the slightest , while some wear those baggy rags indefinitely others uniforms start to fit better as they begin to fill them out with better skills , see the image implied to hypothetically apply is any dam system or darn art has to be custom tailored to fit and suit each individual ,so they can make the most of the material in terms of their
motion ,all the material but not its value can be transferred over to a student the whole value has to be instilled , that's why no one can learn anything but the most basic value of material from watching any advanced videos, or distant trainings unless its throwing some light on a path they are already far enough along but its only still worth pennies on the dollar from affording a
customized and expert tailor ingrained to fit uniform ,and the ones at the end of the day whose personalized suits best fits the system most keep the style alive ,odds are the truth is any one teaching an art did not refine their developed skills in a class setting but through long intensive study and training under their teacher on a one to one basis so they can not convey much of what they know except in the same way

 

[infinite beginner]

once I asked my teacher how far he was thinking ahead in what he does ,his reply about six moves and I thought man that's really advanced how can he do that ,but now I realize it anything but its just common sense to expect every form of available counter and by looking deep into the action reaction possibilities as part of visualization or imagination training ,knowing already our idea out the gate is to limit the choices of response the other has by our initial angle positioning and striking strategies it not so far fetched to say I do one thing what can they do each time, how does this attack set them up in silat do we want to waste extra time blocking ,no , we'd rather the other to waste time blocking ,if we can clean hit through fine, but the next best thing is if we can get them to divert their focus balance and energies to be off blocking something , thus potentially optimally we can create their first mistake , asking how can we use all their defenses to our advantage and always control the flow of momentum in the exchange and we know if we do block their strike going back is just as dangerous as it was going out

 

[infinite beginner]

It seems like any time of the day you can put together new jurus patterns
or better yet you can't help but do this ,I think you first drill the jurus
exactly as they are shown, then through sheer repetition you perfect
each motion ,then when this accomplished you take a step back and
you take with you a great sense of what feels right, in the big picture
you can't go to tie your shoe with out referencing three jurus , cause
in the beginning you float through the jurus but you aren't rooted in
any of the motions , then as the the jurus expose you to contorting your
structure in every inconvenient manner possible ,until lunging forward
kicking sideways dropping to your knee rolling doing a three sixty
with a low back sweep in the middle and unwinding with a high crescent kick
all in a few moments feels comfortable and run of the mill, so you slowly become
a composer of structure , you ingrain the specific principles and physics ,and then
you are a jurus factory, maybe the greatest thing the jurus teach is how to create

 

[tiga]

Hi Infinite_beginner,

It sounds like you are doing Bukti Negara?
Am I right? Where do you train?

Greets,
Tiga