Who's the daddy? DNA test a

Discussion in 'The Study' started by Ceicei, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Ceicei

    Ceicei Grandmaster

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    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23814032/

    Some question whether this is ethical. Others say the "right to know" is very important. I don't have a problem with this being available. I think most people who may use this would understand that accuracy may not necessarily be guaranteed. What are your thoughts?


    - Ceicei
     
  2. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    I don't have a problem with the availability of these tests, but I think the demand for them is a pretty good indication that our society is making its last trip around the toilet bowl.
     
  3. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    I think most of the people arguing against this have a vested interest in the status quo, and thus are not to be taken particularly seriously on the matter. If you suspect a child is not yours, you have a right to know. Especially before the state puts the full weight of armed coercion behind enforcing your responsibility on that child for 18+ years.
     
  4. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    Infidelity isn't exactly a new phenomenon you know...
     
  5. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    Ya think?
     
  6. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    So how does this prove then that our society is "circling the drain"? Infidelity has always been with us. Even with a society that put heavy disapproval on divorce. Over 4 million babies are born each year in the US, so the demand for this test makes about 1.3% of the total. Hardly a social apocalypse.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray Master Black Belt

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    Sounds like a clear message is being sent: Don't put technology in the hands of common people; it's only for the priestcraft of smart people...
     
  8. Twin Fist

    Twin Fist Grandmaster

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    The only person who fears a polygraph is a liar

    The only person who fears a paternity test..............
     
  9. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    This I would agree upon
     
  10. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    Back in the 1950s a young Jared Diamond talked to an older researcher who was in his cups.

    The senior scientist was going to bury several years of dedicated work and pretend it didn't happen. He was torn up about it but knew it had to be done or his career and personal life would be ruined. The effects on the larger society were a greater responsibility than he was willing to take on.

    Had he developed a cheap easy way of making nuclear weapons?
    Did he discover the Fountain that Ponce de Leon failed to find?
    Was it mind control implants?

    No. No. And no.

    He was looking at blood type prevalence in the US and UK. A few of you already see where this is going. Give yourself gold stars.

    The samples were taken from newborns and their parents in maternity wards.

    Have the rest of you figured it out? No? I'll let the other shoe drop.

    Completely as a side effect of the research he determined that at least ten percent of the husbands could not have fathered their wives' children. That's a lower bound since he was only looking at blood group and Rh factors. He believed it would have shaken the social foundations of his day. And he would have been forced out of his career, possibly imprisoned or murdered. So he swore the young scientist to secrecy. The bare fact would not be disclosed until after his death and never his name.

    Jared Diamond was as good as his word. He won't say who the medical researcher was.

    Jump forward half a century. In the last couple years there's been a few genetic studies worldwide on who did what to whom and whether Little Smedley should call his mother's husband "Dad". It turns out that with more sophisticated ways of determining these things we're no worse off than we were before. Ten to twelve percent of babies are woods-colts. From what I recall that is pretty constant in countries outside North America and the UK.

    Society isn't "circling the drain" as Cory puts it. It looks like we're actually slightly more honest than we were five decades ago. But it does mean that cherished romantic notions of "traditional" or shall we say "mythical" absolute fidelity are nonsense. Men and women have always done what men and women have always done. Now we just have better ways of catching them at it. If society as we know it can handle that much inconvenient truth the fault lies in our inability to deal with reality rather than our supposed descent into sexual liscentiousness.

    Two millennia ago the Sages who compiled the Talmud said "Be not too harsh with [these] sins. For if our mothers and fathers had not sinned we would not have been born."
     
  11. Andy Moynihan

    Andy Moynihan Senior Master

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    Oh, society absolutely *IS* circling the drain, just this particular reason is nothing to do with it, that's all.
     
  12. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    Which makes it unverifiable hearsay. Or in layman's terms, ********. More specifically, since the researcher was "in his cups", drunken ********. I would be willing to accept the claim, though, should a real researcher provide the data and sign his name to it. I don't like "it's true, but you'll have to take my word for it" tales, and this sounds a lot like the other 10 Percent Myth.
     
  13. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Eh, doesn't apply to me. I'm a virgin.
    That's what I told my son, and I'm sticking to it.

    ;)
     
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  14. Drac

    Drac Sr. Grandmaster

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    When I was injuried I watched the Montel Williams show a few times...The segment of " I don't know who my baby daddy is are the funniest"...
     
  15. tellner

    tellner Senior Master

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    Cory, Dr. Diamond has an unblemished record for truthfulness in his research gained painstakingly over half a century. With that I'm willing to cut him some slack. When I asked him about the incident I asked if he were willing to testify to the facts under oath. He allowed as how he would be if the occasion came up.

    You do not. What you have consistently demonstrated is a tendency to cram your fingers in your ears and scream "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!" whenever a evidence from the real world does not meet with your prejudices.

    Just as a few informal checks on the facts, my father did vasectomies for half a century. There were cases where the wife of the vasectomized turned up pregnant. In every single one of those his sperm count was, umm, zero. The genetic studies - more rigorous and recent - have been done worldwide. They are consistent across cultures and continents. In the oh-so-wonderful 1950s approximately half of first births to married couples were less than full term. That's an awful lot of premies.

    Check out a few books like The Way We Never Were. The facts are beyond dispute. Most men's first sex up until the first quarter of the twentieth century or thereabouts was with prostitutes. In the 18th and 19th century a good case could be made that most adult men got the majority of their sex from working girls.

    But of course, the Sanctity of Marriage was inviolable. Married people never had sex outside Holy Matrimony. It was only the hairy-legged bark eating 60s liberals who changed everything.

    The facts are against you which is why I fully expect three or four choruses of "You're a nasty evil liar who hates America." Don't bother. I've heard it before. It's not going to convince anyone.123
     

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