Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by Flatlander, Sep 19, 2004.
Then how do you know it is JKD?
Because I apply the concepts of JKD to what I do; I don't think the techniques themselves dictate JKD.
I wasn't being argumentative, just an attempt at flippant humour.
I guess what I was getting at is that we have to have a level of approval from a real teacher of the art we are studying, in order to know that we have the concepts of that art sufficiently and correctly ingrained before we can start personalising aspects and truly say that we then we have our 'way', otherwise it might not be JKD at all but just some made up mimicry. I'm not saying that this is the case with anyone here, but so many people learn from books, DVDs and the internet these days and then go and do their own thing that many of the people who say they have their own way/style/art really don't have the background and experience to justify the claim.
Just to clarify.
Do you teach your JKD?
The concepts found in JKD are found in most martial arts. Nothing new there. What makes "your JKD" Jeet Kune Do?
I think you're looking at that statement the wrong way, I don't claim to have established some new form of JKD. In my eyes JKD is not a form, it is a concept to be applied to one's studies of the martial arts as a whole. The way I phrased my statement was as such because I didn't feel the title of this thread fit what it was asking and I tried to sort of exploit that by pointing out a fundamental of the JKD philosophy.
Everybody's JKD is supposed to be their own personal interpretation of martial arts in general, in my opinion. Thus, their own JKD.
I would trust the writer of the above quote to be able to do his own thing and it still be JKD, because he has pedigree in JKD.
Immersion in an art such as JKD gives you the core skills to be able to add new material but give it the flavour of those core skills, otherwise you end up doing something that has a different core and is therefore another art and not JKD.
A lot of people seem to fail to realize that Bruce was very philosophical in his approach to martial arts and life itself.
Not everyone's JKD is going to be the same. By this I am speaking beyond your pedigree. Whether you have trained with Ted Wong or Guru Dan, JKD is supposed to be one man's journey and self discovery/application through martial arts. Granted I believe the concepts laid out in the Tao (i.e. 5 ways of attack, 4 ranges, how to punch etc) are extremely important and should be a foundation to built upon, however one must realize had Bruce not died JKD would be ever evolving. JKD was something Bruce was doing for himself which ended up being broken down into concepts and ideas and shared with others. It is not an art set in stone like Kenpo or Shotokan.
Take for example 2 of his students: Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Ted Wong. Bruce would have taught them a little different. Kareem is 7 foot tall with a huge reach via legs and arms and would most assuredly be instructed to keep distance as this would be his natural advantage. Mr. Wong on the other hand not so much. Thus the idea "absorb what is useful..." might be different for the two of these men.
Let me quote something Bruce said that I have found to hit the nail on the head:
"I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy. The closer to the true way of Kung Fu, the less wastage of expression there is. Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive. Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back."
Yes, I don't think anyone could disagree with this, my point was really that not just any old Tom, Dick or Harry can call their own martial journey Jeet Kune Do if they have not had a fair degree of direct guidance from an instructor with JKD pedigree. I am not saying that pedigree is a fixed thing like the attributes of a particular breed of dog, but that there are still certain apects, intricacies and underlying principles that make Jeet Kune Do Jeet Kune Do as opposed to something else, and that only certain accepted people within the overall art, be it concepts or Jun Fan, or a balance of both, can pass those foundations on to someone who is just starting out.
Just as important is running before one can walk. How long should one spend doing only what they are shown, before they start integrating other material?
For me, I am still very much a novice, but occasionally if it feels natural and I know it is going to work, I will slip in something from another art in which I am a 2nd dan and still train. But I am keeping this to a minimum and working instead on the wonderful array of things that are new to me.
I was not directing my post to you. I definitely agree with you here.
To your question about when one could start doing this or that or adding on, that is something no one can answer other than the individual. Afterall this is a personal art. Speed and power are going to fluxuate throughout the martial artists life. So this should never be a litmus test for mastery or when a person should stay or move on. When you can be like water, then you will have met your goal.
I am used to working with 5 elements but I can concentrate on water.
I look at this now and think "the heck was I thinking"? Funny how time has a tendency to reveal things to us. Now i hold to an entirely different philosophy. What a learning process, hehe.
Concepts, i feel like people should do away with Jun Fan Gung Fu. It's just meant to illustrate JKD. It's not meant to be the end all be all. You're supposed to learn from Bruce's way in order to find your own way.
do away with jun fan? jun fan is the framework of jkd, if you don't try it first how will you know what works and what doesn`t . you cant stray from the foundation until you have experienced it first and tested it. jkd is not about just taking a million techniques from different arts and calling it jkd, without the nucleus you dont have jkd. im also a concepts guy but i dont just throw stuff away. i thoroughly study it and thoroughly test it, and if it does not work for me i study it some more and test it a lot more and see if it was me or try to see if i can make it work in its original form, or if i have to modify it. bruce knew what he was doing. you dont just throw stuff away if it does not work after only trying it a few times and coming to a conclusion that quick, you almost have to analyze it scientifically first. if your own way isnt rooted in biomechanics and science it will probably get you beaten or killed or both. ps you do jkd? i thought you did karate in the garage with your bro.
He doesn't need to do jkd, he had personal instruction from Bruce Lee.
Or he read a book.
Or he watched 'Rush Hour 2' like 9 times, but can't remember which one is Bruce Lee.
C'mon, how dare you question his authenticity?
Oh, and this thread is older than his "training" history...
I've studied multiple lineages of JKD, from the early Jun Fan (Jesse Glover's guys), to Inosanto's concepts, Paul Vunak's lineage, and a few others, however I am an instructor of the Jerry Poteet lineage of JKD. I am also an instructor of Wing Tsun.
I look at the concepts and look trough all styles collectively. I am in the process of my own interpretation of Jkd as was intended by Bruce. What we are taught is what worked for him but to study deeper and add in, and take away what works for you, was always the intentions of the creation of jkd. This is my thoughts.
For Jeet Kune Do, I've trained in both camps of "concepts" and "original'. I was first introduced to it through the Inosanto lineage and I am currently learning from the Poteet lineage. I appreciate the modern approach, but I have a greater reverence to the original camp. Of course it all depends on your instructor.123
Separate names with a comma.