Which way of JKD do you do?

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by Flatlander, Sep 19, 2004.

?

Concepts or Jun Fan?

  1. I do Jun Fan JKD

  2. I do JKD concepts

  3. I'm not really sure, but its groovy!

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  1. Dancing Dragon

    Dancing Dragon Yellow Belt

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    K'Evans you are definitely a great martial artist in the making! I also practice "Jeet Kune Do" or at least my own interpretation of JKD. I believe K'Evans is right, Jeet Kune Do essentially died with Bruce and there is no absolute way of knowing how he would have or could have taught JKD to the world. But he did leave behind plenty of notes, guidelines, and philosophy for us to grasp the general idea of his art. Bruce's intentions were for us to develop our own way and to seek out our own paths in the martial arts.

    My personal "method", "style", or "interpretation" of Jeet Kune Do is deeply rooted in one principle that Sifu Lee taught, and that is that we must practice the Art of the Soul. Put your entire being into your art; when you practice, when you fight, just give it your all and regardless of the outcome, you know that you didn't fail yourself. Emotional content, to me, is the key factor. Fight from your soul, let your passion burn. "Don't think, feel...It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!" Better yet "When my opponent expands I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity, I do not hit, it hits all by itself."

    I'd say that it's good that we all disagree or at least have different views on Jeet Kune Do, otherwise it would become a static, cold, dead, classical art; "The Gospel Truth". Something that Bruce never would have wanted for us. Be yourself, make JKD your art, "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is originally your own."

    Peace
     
  2. thtackett

    thtackett White Belt

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    I do JKD. JKD has a structure. If you don't have the JKD structure, is what you're doing JKD?
     
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  3. Em MacIntosh

    Em MacIntosh 3rd Black Belt

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    JKD is just a name...
    Personal expression of self defense is the bottom line. What works for you, not Bruce. If the styles (yours and his) are coincidentially similar, well, that's a coincidence, isn't it? JKD concepts, literally (not a label for the inosanto schools of thought), should be what it's all about. Bruce trained in JKD concepts. Learning as he turned theory into reality (or into a more tested theory). The way the body moves for the individual. Following his concepts of the freedom of honest expression. JKD is a concept. To say it's a set of moves is to turn it into a jacket not everyone will fit into. I thought JKD was created to offer something more flexible.
     
  4. thtackett

    thtackett White Belt

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    It's much more than doing your own thing. There's is a structure, but within that structure there's some room for individual expression. JKD is based on having your strong hand forward and being able to intercept your opponent's preparation or intention with enough power to stop him with one blow. Bruce Lee taught a specific way to move, to punch and kick that are the basis of JKD.
     
  5. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Wheer I study JKD strong hand forward is definitely emphasized. We do have reasonably specific ways to do the techniques. I am slow and have trouble with intercepting! It's been very hard for me.
     
  6. kaizasosei

    kaizasosei Master Black Belt

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    ive been watching bruce lee analyzing his methods. i notice that he used intimidation or threat as a setup as well as a defense. for example, he does a hadoken type movement that causes the other person to retreat. in the scene where he fights karim abdul, karim uses the bruce lee tricks, and can be seen doing such hadoken-type move when he is sitting crosslegged.- it causes bruce himself to momentarily retreat.. this shows that bruce was sharing his skills.
    of course he is deceptively fast, powerful. very light on his feet. which is very important for real fighting.
    sometimes, it is made so obvious that he will repeat an attack in a very provocative way, only setting up for when he suddenly switches to completely different move. another element is that he is able to see the most effective angles and openings in his enemies guard, coming at the enemy from all angles. the enemies guard is almost like an extension of bruce lees tools that he is very proficient at manipulating.
    he also retreats in order to then switch to suddenly attack lunging forward. the strong hand forward in my experience is also very effective after taking a retreating step back only to spring back.

    to me, it is clear that he is fighting with his mind more than with the body. however, the body must be quick enough to respond. also, some of his weapons scenes, he can be seen performing feats similar to those of iaijutsu, tension and relaxation alternating in a most realistic yet aesthetic way.
    his strikes were also not seemingly effortless strikes of tma people, but packed very much power. that is the power needed to do damage. the perfect balance between skill and cleverness vs. brutality
     
  7. thtackett

    thtackett White Belt

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    The hammer principle is one of the best ways to learn to intercept. We will have a detailed explanation of it in Bob Bremer's and my book, "Chinatown JKD". It is from Black Belt Magazine and in in the final editing stages. Another key to intercepting is the right distance. You will never get it if he can hit you without taking a step forward. The front foot coming forward is what gives you the time to make it work.
    Tim Tackett
     
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  8. joeygil

    joeygil Green Belt

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    Hey Tim,

    Love your books and articles, and great point on the hammer principle - it's made my punching faster and less telegraphic. I find it only really works for me in a boxing frame work. When we're kick-box sparring, the fighting measure is usually too far for me to bridge with a punch as they're usually stepping in to "kicking range" for a kick (plus I'm short) - so I go with jik tek. I need a way to make my jik tek as fast as my hammer principle chun chu'i.

    @Kaizasosei,

    Beware using Sijo Bruce Lee's movie's as a guide to non-theatrical JKD. He looked tense in those scenes because it looks good for the camera, with all the tensed up muscles. Really he taught to stay relaxed until right before the punch lands - letting your hand "explode" into a fist. Otherwise the contractile muscles will slow you down. That's what Sifu Tackett is talking about with the Hammer Principle - relax the contractile muscles (biceps) to initiate the punch (simple explaination here).

    And just to clue in what he may be talking about, a "Hadoken" is a move from the Street Fighter series of video games, where one extends both arms forward - which results in a magical fire ball of Chi shooting out. I thought Kareem was merely throwing up his huge hands as a blocking motion.

    You did spot a number of "real" JKD elements in the fight - the feints to draw the opponenent to react one way to take advantage of that reaction is called "Attack by Draw." You also got a good grasp of some of the footwork - such as retreat/advance with reposte (with push off footwork, from your description).
     
  9. Bodhisattva

    Bodhisattva Blue Belt

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    ]

    My JKD looks a lot like MMA.
     
  10. simplicity

    simplicity Green Belt

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    As a JKD Instructor I don't agree with the terms JKD concepts or Original JKD. In my opinion and experience theses term where created after Bruce Lee's death. He even talked about after death of a "ONCE FLUID MAN"S" art turned into a "CLASSICAL MESS".


    As a Jeet Kune Do Instructor, I teach the student the "PRINCIPLES" of JKD. But, noway in heck do I teach them the "THIRD STAGE" or formless form of their instructor (My JKD). Somthing to think about. I*_*I



    Keep "IT" Real,
    John McNabney
     
  11. hungfistron

    hungfistron Green Belt

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    Everyone has to crawl before they walk, still learning the formless form is a goal of mine that I wish to reach one day.

    Going back to what Sifu McNabney said, I would expect everyone's to be different, would imagine it could only be "felt" not taught.
     
  12. Bodhisattva

    Bodhisattva Blue Belt

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    The most important principle of JKD, to my thinking is

    "Absorb what is useful."
     
  13. simplicity

    simplicity Green Belt

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    We are not talking about "Most Important" principle here, that would violate right off the back what Jeet Kune Do is in the first place.....Being neither for or against, but what is......Somthing to think about, ya know.


    Keep "IT" Real,
    John McNabney
     
  14. NubreedKaliSilat

    NubreedKaliSilat Yellow Belt

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    I am an instructor in the Lee-Inosanto lineage and the JKD concepts under Paul Vunak lineage. My thought's, Although Sijo Bruce Lee had a consuming ambition to break into the movies. Sijo found himself becoming gradually more and more fasciated with the philosophies of teaching, with the intricacies of conveying his physical and spiritual message to a variety of student's. He was determined to treat each student differently, as an individual, and not just resort to a set curriculum that everyone followed, with no regard to the personality. This as you see has lead everyone to these difficulties that we see today. Sijo Bruce Lee did not want the nomind drilling like a Karate class. He wanted each student to explore himself, and made it clear he wanted the number's low in class. He taught no more then 6 student's at anyone time. He wished for the instructor to help student's to explore internally, and
    externally, using a method of provoking the student into reaching oneness with himself. So, I say follow what works for you!!!!
     
  15. simplicity

    simplicity Green Belt

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    Dan Inosanto is a great teacher, matter of fact I'm going to train with next weekend here in Michigan. I use to train with Dan back in the day. The last time I train with Guro Dan was the mid 90's.

    This is something that I have on my website guys, you might like it.

    "The good student/teacher discovers the natural gifts of their pupils and liberates them by the stimulating influence of the inspiration that they can impart, never imposing laws of containment or stigma on them"

    For All Student/Teachers

    Also, this is on my site as well.

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not, nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not take the place of persistence, unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not, the world is full of educated derelicts. The slogan "Press On" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."

    USA President Calvin Coolidge


    As I always say.......Something to think about!

    Have a great weekend and good training to you :)


    Keep "IT" Real,
    John McNabney
     
  16. NubreedKaliSilat

    NubreedKaliSilat Yellow Belt

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    Sifu Dan is awesome! He is a walking encylopedia of Martial arts, I have trained with him many times at his school and seminars. I train with his son in law Ron Balicki and his daughter Diana. I will be going to a seminar Nov. 8-9 with Sifu Richard Bustillo in Fort Collins Colorado. Anyone want information email me, Nubreed
     
  17. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    I havn't trained with Dan but he is one that if I had to choose one BLS to train with, would at the top of the list. The problem is tying to choose one.

    Ron Balicki would also be near the top of the list amongst the 2nd gens.
     
  18. FierySquidFace

    FierySquidFace Green Belt

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    I guess I'm more of a concepts guy, but I put my emphasis on learning as much as I can, from as many sources as I can, and using what works the best for me in any given situation. I do not want to conform to any one style, as I believe that only limits our true abillity.
     
  19. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

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    I'd have to say a JKD Concepts guy myself, as that's been my exposure wit JKD, from guys from the Inosanto lineage, and seminar experience with Guro Inosanto itself, as well as coming to JKD Concepts from the FMA side.
     
  20. Gruenewald

    Gruenewald Orange Belt

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    Which way of JKD do I do?

    My own.123
     

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