Which way of JKD do you do?

Discussion in 'JKD / Jeet Kune Do' started by Flatlander, Sep 19, 2004.

?

Concepts or Jun Fan?

  1. I do Jun Fan JKD

  2. I do JKD concepts

  3. I'm not really sure, but its groovy!

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  1. brothershaw

    brothershaw Purple Belt

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    i dont practice jkd but from reading different threads it sounds like jkd is just about everything Bruce lee was supposedly trying to get away from.
    1- Different people who learned from him at different times thinking what he taught them is the "true way" ( sounds just like wing chun, and also aikido, and some japanese budo)
    2- Disputes over lineage
    3- People randomly quote the old masters sayings like its the gospel ( i.e wing chun limited bruce so he moved on) without necesarrily knowing what the original speaker meant or the context
    4-Etc.,etc.

    I am not knocking jkd, just saying that like anything else that may start out good people tend to ruin it with b.s.

    Not to be a troll but..........
    Thousands if not millions of people by now have joined martial arts schools and quit before they reached instructor level (because they didnt like the teacher, the style, the uniform, didnt feel comfortable with it, that doesnt make the style any less valid)
     
  2. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    You without even realizing where you coming from were in the ball partk, so to speak. This thread really should not be. There is no "which way."

    The "O" and "C" are both incomplete without the other, two halves of the whole. ONE JKD FAMILY. We all know what Bruce said about JKD:
    "If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."
     
  3. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    Yes, of course, there is an "ideal" way that people should view the situation. That doesn't change the fact that there are people out there who claim to be doing one or the other. The intent of the thread was to see how that broke down into numbers, not to convince them that they are wrong in their approach.

    For reference, these guys claim to be doing "concepts".

    This article describes another approach, wherein Bruce Lee's Original methods are being preserved. From the article:
    So it is clear that there are differences in the ways that practitioners are viewing Jeet Kune Do.

    :asian:
     
  4. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    First you have to understand "who" JKD.com.hk are. After the Jun Fan Nucleus disbanded there was a couple of people who held on to "something that was destined to be nothing." They are now recruiting "new members."

    Whats the use? Without the "original members" it means nothing.

    Ted Wong and Tommy Gong.

    Although Ted was Bruces Friend thats as far as it goes. He can't trap and will not try to teach it because he can't do it. Basicly he teaches kickboxing but without the ring experience. Sounds harsh but true.

    Tommy Gong is a backstabber who did not even know my Sifu on
    http://www.taoofgungfu.com/
    but felt the need to speak up for certain members of the Oakland school. (This was at a meeting of the original Oakland students and he should have not been there in the first place) What the hell, Tommy was never a part of the Oakland school. He had no buisness in "their politics." Secondly, I saw the tape, he was nowhere to be found after "stepping up to the plate." He left the ones he was defending to "fend for themselves."

    All arts have politics. But if you jump in the water, you need to able to swim.

    Beleive me for a moment. I come from "one side and I admit that there should be no sides." Dosen't that say something? :asian:
     
  5. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    Man, I think that you have completely missed the point of what I was trying to say. Let me clarify. People have different views. This was an exercise to see how JKD practitioners who are members of Martial Talk define what they do. This was not an exercise in arguing the validity of those positions. I am not here to promote any specific camp.

    I believe that all are entitled to their own ways and beliefs. People will choose to do what works for them. People will identify their own gods, and worship them. This is the way of things.
     
  6. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    I didn't mean to argue. I just have reason not like certain people out there and by coincidence you referanced them.

    Part of the problem is when "some people" say that JKD is merely a concept. Technically that would nulify my lineage. I don't troip on that so much anymore because I beleive that all JKD should come together as one.

    Hopefully "ALL" will be represented at the Jn Fan Beach Camp next August in Huntington Beach. I will be there assissting my Sifu.
     
  7. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    :asian:
     
  8. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    :asian:
     
  9. brothershaw

    brothershaw Purple Belt

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    jkd nucleus or concepts( i confuse the terms) whatever group that is trying to preserve bruce lees original teachings and pass them on( in an almost historical context)

    There is nothing wrong with that per se, but also thats like saying daito ryu or koryu arts worked for the samurai lets preserve them as close to what it was as possible ( even if it may not exactly be relevant anymore)

    Maybe his main point was to make good fighters as quickly as possible?
     
  10. kroh

    kroh Brown Belt

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    The thing about which side one professes, is that it is ultimately pointless. If one follows what Bruce Lee taught originally, then you are doing what Bruce did. If you are leaving the path to find your own way...then you are doing what Bruce did.

    When you look at what the guy was trying to accomplish, why would anyone try to be just like him. Wouldn't it be better to be as original as possible? I myself study Jun Fan Gung Fu / Jeet Kune Do. But to think that the way I train is eventually going to make me "Just Like Mike," so to speak, is ridiculous. The core principles are there but ultimately my "signature" aproach to the method is going to differ from everyone else's. Basically it is just like hand writing. We all can read each other's writting but we can tell who wrote what...

    The thing that has always bothered me about the martial arts community is all the hype and politics. It just seems that when some one makes a claim in this country (USA) about this or that system, there is always the next guy in line to try and disprove what they have going on. Instead of just agreeing that we are all just taking different routes to end up in the same place, martial artists seem to have this ingrained need to say that this or that method doesn't work (Testosterone express...ALL ABOARD).

    My personal opinion (and that is all this is as I am not a great MA master...just a guy who likes to train hard and throw down every once in a while) is that if you do Original JKD then that is cool. Have fun with it. If you have abandoned JKD in favor of JKD conceptual training...Great...Live it and love it. Point being that we all have something we can teach each other. Just sit back and enjoy (be thankfull that we do not use our skills for actual warfare anymore since we would not have all these cool people to interact with).

    Thanks for the minute...
    Regards,
    Walt
     
  11. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Good post. I want to add that people seem to be confused about what the actual original teaching/training is. NOBODY in the JKD realm teaches solely what Bruce taught and practiced. Eveything is "modified expanded" versions which becomes "our own."
     
  12. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes, you'd be hard pressed to find someone teaching it as Bruce Lee did nowadays. Many have added more grappling, just for one example.
     
  13. Nanalo74

    Nanalo74 Blue Belt

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    'nuff said.

    Vic www.combatartsusa.com
     
  14. Nanalo74

    Nanalo74 Blue Belt

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    LOL!!!
     
  15. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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  16. shrek

    shrek Yellow Belt

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    MY WAY!

    Even if one did the same as Bruce, started out in Wing Chun & took it to the level he did then went out and studied other arts to the extent Bruce did...they'd still have a different experience and come away with a different view of what was useful to themselves. We all have our favorite techniques...everyone is different even though the kata/poomse/form is the same :)

    It's like kissing...there is no perfect way, but oh so many ways to do it, some more pleasureable than others ;)
     
  17. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    Dude, if your JKD includes kissing, that is definitely a unique twist! ROFL!
     
  18. Robert Lee

    Robert Lee Brown Belt

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    Remember no matter the art It is your way in the end. Take JKD you study you train but it becomes yours has no name just something you do. Training has structure to the learning then from there the person finds and uses what is best for them.
     
  19. shrek

    shrek Yellow Belt

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    Heh, well, my girlfriend is a retired Marine...so sparring can often lead to more interesting situations ;) Nothing better than a make-up session after a good fight :D
     
  20. K' Evans

    K' Evans Orange Belt

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    I am new and only took up JKD couple of months so I am really not offering a fresh perspective here. Also I am glad that some consensus has been reached, so I don't want to dig up another can of worms. In truth, the politics in JKD should have been settled by now. I just want to add my interpretation after being introduced into JKD. Also to put things in perspective, I am currently being schooled in OJKD.

    I think the real contention here is that no school can realistically offer to teach what Bruce Lee taught. I am not saying that people like Ted Wong or Jerry Poteet never learnt anything from Bruce; they clearly did pick up stuff from Bruce Lee but I think Bruce Lee's writings just make it very hard to grasp the actual meaning of JKD. My personal reading of him is that 1) he was very reluctant to name his MA as he didn't want to give it a name; 2) as he always claimed to be constantly learning and evolving, his ideas about techniques and their effectiveness may change over time; 3) he was also a secretive person. Let me expand on the third.

    Let me make it clear that I am not saying he is a bad MA teacher. But I do think that he was hesitant about teaching his art. Not only did he close down his schools (in fear that students would assume JKD as a "fixed" style or the "Truth"), but he was quoted as saying stuff like "Martial arts shouldn't be handed out indiscriminately". Also in some articles or interviews with his students, Bruce sometimes cautioned them not to share the knoweldge they have. Given his untimely death, I just don't think, to reiterate kroh, that anyone alive today can claim to teach his style 100%.

    Some techniques are clearly inspired by his thoughts and analysis of MAs, like the straight lead, and the stance is created by him. But the great thing about Bruce is that he researched into what techniques were effective, and thus I think that's why he claimed in his BB interview that he didn't create a "new style". All he did was brilliant research into what works for him, and we are simply picking it up from there.

    Hence, I don't really see any need for hostility towards the JKD Concepts group. Nevertheless, there are concerns about what other type of MAs should be mixed with JKD or its concepts, and Bruce was also concerned about that. To be honest, I am still grappling with that question so I don't know the answer. However, I do believe the core philosophy of JKD, which pertains to interception, having a scientific structure and etc, are some essential ingredients before someone can haphazardly call their style JKD.123
     

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