I do the same (under Mr. Hartman).
I do the same (under Mr. Hartman).
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
also train/teach FMA as primary.
OP
Rob Wilson
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #23
I am a practitioner of Ernesto Presas Kombatan and I am currently at Brown level. I practice Dumog, some silat and I have attended one two-day MARPPIO seminar, and a Kalis Illustrisimo seminar. I have been practicing FMA for two years and eight months.
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #24
Yeah, Ive been doing it for about 3 years here. It will be 4 in March. I havnt really ever done any other arts besides this and a couple of others but have never stuck to them. Its been Kali for me all the way. My teacher wants me to get fantastic in one system before I try overloading my brain in other ones. I personally agree with this and instead of cross training I spar lots of differant styles full contact to keep me on my toes and ready for mostly anything.
:rofl: :shrug: :asian:
:rofl: :shrug: :asian:
OP
Red Blade
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #25
I do JKD Kali and a little Modern Arnis. I do them as an add on.
I find it funny that I don't see many Modern Arnis people listing here as a full time art.
I find it funny that I don't see many Modern Arnis people listing here as a full time art.
OP
BWright
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #26
Modern Arnis.
This is the only art I study.
This is the only art I study.
dearnis.com
Master Black Belt
"Don't see many Modern Arnis people listing here as a full time art."
Not so much funny as sad. Professor taught the seminars as a combination outreach program/ongoing instructor development program. The instructors were supposed to go back and have some kind of program, whether teaching a single training partner, or a whole boat-load of people. Instead it seems like many left sticks laying around the school, scheduled every third Tuesday as Arnis night (subject to change if something else came up), and concluded that they "taught arnis" becasue their students had token requirements from MA added at key belt levels.
Of course these are the same sorts that thought Professor had changed the art if something different came out at a seminar
This does lead to the question of whether you can legitmately study two arts at the same time as full time arts. I think most people can do so with good teaching. Now developing a personal expression which blends the two in free-flow or semi-sparring; that is another question.
Not so much funny as sad. Professor taught the seminars as a combination outreach program/ongoing instructor development program. The instructors were supposed to go back and have some kind of program, whether teaching a single training partner, or a whole boat-load of people. Instead it seems like many left sticks laying around the school, scheduled every third Tuesday as Arnis night (subject to change if something else came up), and concluded that they "taught arnis" becasue their students had token requirements from MA added at key belt levels.
Of course these are the same sorts that thought Professor had changed the art if something different came out at a seminar
This does lead to the question of whether you can legitmately study two arts at the same time as full time arts. I think most people can do so with good teaching. Now developing a personal expression which blends the two in free-flow or semi-sparring; that is another question.
OP
Stickfighter72
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #28
I practice and teach more Pekiti Tirsia and some Inosanto blend Kali, here!!!!
I also have practiced for about a year or 2 in Serrada Eskrima until I had to move away from my instructor. I was really liking that system. We done alot of Largomano, Kadenademano, Panantukan, Silat, deCuerdas as well as medio/corto range fighting...... Simply because Serrada is an more upclose and personal range of stickfighting...
I also have practiced for about a year or 2 in Serrada Eskrima until I had to move away from my instructor. I was really liking that system. We done alot of Largomano, Kadenademano, Panantukan, Silat, deCuerdas as well as medio/corto range fighting...... Simply because Serrada is an more upclose and personal range of stickfighting...
Damian Mavis
Master Black Belt
Sticking to the original question, out of the 3 I do Kali.
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
Damian Mavis
Honour TKD
OP
Master of Blades
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #30
Yay....another Kali person!!!!!!
Primary Filipine Arts: Modern Arnis & FCS-Kali
Hey,
I officially do Doce Pares Eskrima. In my mind I think of it as Arnis and when I describe it to my filipino relatives I have to use the terms Arnis or Arnis De Mano or they don't know what I'm talking about right off the bat. I think it may be a regional thing (Luzon as opposed to Visayas).
Bart
I officially do Doce Pares Eskrima. In my mind I think of it as Arnis and when I describe it to my filipino relatives I have to use the terms Arnis or Arnis De Mano or they don't know what I'm talking about right off the bat. I think it may be a regional thing (Luzon as opposed to Visayas).
Bart
OP
Dave Fulton
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #34
In my opinion, "A rose by any other name ..." ... they're all the same inspite of what a lot of people try to argue.
However, I call our art "arnis" because that's what my teacher calls it, which is what his teacher called it (although my teacher's teacher now calls it "kali").
Whatever you want to call it, it involves sticks & blades and it's effective.
Respectfully,
Dave Fulton
Full Contact Martial Arts Association
However, I call our art "arnis" because that's what my teacher calls it, which is what his teacher called it (although my teacher's teacher now calls it "kali").
Whatever you want to call it, it involves sticks & blades and it's effective.
Respectfully,
Dave Fulton
Full Contact Martial Arts Association
Hey Dave,
I agree with you for the most part. Most systems of Arnis, Kali & Eskrima have obvious similarities in techniques etc...
However, Kalis Ilustrisimo is predominantly a SWORD art. Although it is true that some techniques are interchangeable with stick, the obvious differences are in the motion and usage. In fact, there are subtleties with sword techniques that if not executed properly will either negate the effectiveness or render it useless.
On a similar note, most blunted systems were NOT drawn from the sword or bladed weapons.
I posted these points on several forums and apologize if it has already been seen by some of the Members here.
John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
I agree with you for the most part. Most systems of Arnis, Kali & Eskrima have obvious similarities in techniques etc...
However, Kalis Ilustrisimo is predominantly a SWORD art. Although it is true that some techniques are interchangeable with stick, the obvious differences are in the motion and usage. In fact, there are subtleties with sword techniques that if not executed properly will either negate the effectiveness or render it useless.
On a similar note, most blunted systems were NOT drawn from the sword or bladed weapons.
I posted these points on several forums and apologize if it has already been seen by some of the Members here.
John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
Hey There,
I have to agree that they pretty much mean the same thing, but I have to assert that I didn't hear about "Kali"until I read Dan Inosanto's book. I'd lived in the Philippines and taken "Arnis" in our school for a part of YDT or Youth Development Training and then also at a camp for the Philippine Boy Scouts. I'd heard it referred to as "Arnis" more than anything else. My Uncle is from Cebu and he told me about Doce Pares Eskrima. But he used to "Doce Pares" as the term rather than "Eskrima". But not once did I hear about "Kali". On a trip back to Manila in 1997 I asked about "Kali" and people thought I was talking about the Hindu deity. Whenever I said "Arnis" they knew what I was talking about. I was for the most part talking with lay people and not FMA practitioners.
When I was in Cebu a few years later, the people referred to what they did most often by the Proper Name of the Style as opposed to the generic term of "Eskrima and we were all regarded as "Eskrimadors" in general. This is much like kung-fu practitioners will more likely refer to themselves as doing Wing Chun or Choy Lai Fut or Tai Chi as opposed to Kung Fu. The same goes with Karateka. They will say Kenpo or Shotokan more often than karate in general conversation. "Kali" was rarely mentioned and it seemed to be thought of more as the American word for "Eskrima". But in a multi lingual society like the Philippines, language is much more flexible than it is here in the monolingual US. So people don't get hung up on terminology so much as just being a means to getting the idea across that you want to impart.
Kalis Illustrisimo would of course be sword based as a "kalis" is a type of sword. You can see it on most "Weapons of the Moroland" plaques.
About the sword and stick things not relating to the development of each other, I have to disagree. The spanish kept detailed records and though they didn't really chronicle the FMA, they did chronicle technology. They introduced domestic steel to the Philippines. Before that time, often traditional wooden weapons were superior to the metal weapons made in the Philippines. Really durable metal weapons were brought by Arab, Chinese, and Indian traders. The record of Magellan's defeat is filled with details of fire hardened wood, and other wooden weapons. They were amazed by the weapon quality metal the Spanish had. Although taken from secondary sources it implies that if FMA existed then that it incorporated both wooden and metal weapons.
Before modern times, we can do nothing but conjecture. In modern times we can draw quite a nice developmental link especially in Cebu, which I believe is even where Kalis Illustrisimo finds its roots. Almost every system claims both blunt and edged weapon techniques. The Doce Pares system does. Balintawak does as does the Maranga. I think the interelation between the two is quite obvious.
I have not seen the posts that were made earlier on other forums to demonstrate the separation of development. Can you please post this information here? I'm always open to new information and my opinion is not set in stone. If there is empirical data to back up the claims, I would be willing to count it as true.
Bart
I have to agree that they pretty much mean the same thing, but I have to assert that I didn't hear about "Kali"until I read Dan Inosanto's book. I'd lived in the Philippines and taken "Arnis" in our school for a part of YDT or Youth Development Training and then also at a camp for the Philippine Boy Scouts. I'd heard it referred to as "Arnis" more than anything else. My Uncle is from Cebu and he told me about Doce Pares Eskrima. But he used to "Doce Pares" as the term rather than "Eskrima". But not once did I hear about "Kali". On a trip back to Manila in 1997 I asked about "Kali" and people thought I was talking about the Hindu deity. Whenever I said "Arnis" they knew what I was talking about. I was for the most part talking with lay people and not FMA practitioners.
When I was in Cebu a few years later, the people referred to what they did most often by the Proper Name of the Style as opposed to the generic term of "Eskrima and we were all regarded as "Eskrimadors" in general. This is much like kung-fu practitioners will more likely refer to themselves as doing Wing Chun or Choy Lai Fut or Tai Chi as opposed to Kung Fu. The same goes with Karateka. They will say Kenpo or Shotokan more often than karate in general conversation. "Kali" was rarely mentioned and it seemed to be thought of more as the American word for "Eskrima". But in a multi lingual society like the Philippines, language is much more flexible than it is here in the monolingual US. So people don't get hung up on terminology so much as just being a means to getting the idea across that you want to impart.
Kalis Illustrisimo would of course be sword based as a "kalis" is a type of sword. You can see it on most "Weapons of the Moroland" plaques.
About the sword and stick things not relating to the development of each other, I have to disagree. The spanish kept detailed records and though they didn't really chronicle the FMA, they did chronicle technology. They introduced domestic steel to the Philippines. Before that time, often traditional wooden weapons were superior to the metal weapons made in the Philippines. Really durable metal weapons were brought by Arab, Chinese, and Indian traders. The record of Magellan's defeat is filled with details of fire hardened wood, and other wooden weapons. They were amazed by the weapon quality metal the Spanish had. Although taken from secondary sources it implies that if FMA existed then that it incorporated both wooden and metal weapons.
Before modern times, we can do nothing but conjecture. In modern times we can draw quite a nice developmental link especially in Cebu, which I believe is even where Kalis Illustrisimo finds its roots. Almost every system claims both blunt and edged weapon techniques. The Doce Pares system does. Balintawak does as does the Maranga. I think the interelation between the two is quite obvious.
I have not seen the posts that were made earlier on other forums to demonstrate the separation of development. Can you please post this information here? I'm always open to new information and my opinion is not set in stone. If there is empirical data to back up the claims, I would be willing to count it as true.
Bart
Hi Bart,
You are correct about the term "kali" as it was relatively unknown in the Philippines. My father always mentioned Arnis de Mano or Armas de Mano.
Thank you for the brief history. I am familiar with the evolution of these fighting arts too and are not questioning the development or correlation of the 2 weapons as the influence was evident.
However, I wanted to point out that NOT ALL systems were drawn from blade work especially the more contemporary ones.
I hope to have clarified my point.
John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
You are correct about the term "kali" as it was relatively unknown in the Philippines. My father always mentioned Arnis de Mano or Armas de Mano.
Thank you for the brief history. I am familiar with the evolution of these fighting arts too and are not questioning the development or correlation of the 2 weapons as the influence was evident.
However, I wanted to point out that NOT ALL systems were drawn from blade work especially the more contemporary ones.
I hope to have clarified my point.
John G. Jacobo
BAKBAKAN International
Hi John,
The only thing that I was disputing was the statement:
It was really just the "most" in the comment that I wanted to talk about. I agree that there must be some that don't find interlocking roots. But as for most of them, I think they definitely share development.
The only thing that I was disputing was the statement:
It was really just the "most" in the comment that I wanted to talk about. I agree that there must be some that don't find interlocking roots. But as for most of them, I think they definitely share development.
OP
Dave Fulton
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #39
Hi John,
I was not attempting to start a debate on the differences between blade vs. stick oriented systems, but I can see that my last sentence may have given that impression.
I was simply pointing out that I don't see any concrete differences that are inherent in the terms arnis, escrima and kali. They seem to simply be different generic terms for fighting arts from the Philippines. Granted, the various styles that they are used to refer may differ dramatically, e.g. Pekiti-tirsia is very different from Serrada Escrima. However, Serrada Escrima is also very different from San Miguel Escrima. My understanding is the G.T. Gaje used the term Pekiti-tirsia Arnis in the late 1970's and later switched to Pekiti-tirsia Kali.
Long story short, which term a teacher uses seems to be more of a matter of preference.
Respectfully,
Dave Fulton
Full Contact Martial Arts Association
I was not attempting to start a debate on the differences between blade vs. stick oriented systems, but I can see that my last sentence may have given that impression.
I was simply pointing out that I don't see any concrete differences that are inherent in the terms arnis, escrima and kali. They seem to simply be different generic terms for fighting arts from the Philippines. Granted, the various styles that they are used to refer may differ dramatically, e.g. Pekiti-tirsia is very different from Serrada Escrima. However, Serrada Escrima is also very different from San Miguel Escrima. My understanding is the G.T. Gaje used the term Pekiti-tirsia Arnis in the late 1970's and later switched to Pekiti-tirsia Kali.
Long story short, which term a teacher uses seems to be more of a matter of preference.
Respectfully,
Dave Fulton
Full Contact Martial Arts Association
arnisandyz
Master Black Belt
I don't "officially" train in any system, but i sure do have alotta fun!
