When recreational drugs are legal...

[Tez3]

I agree but it's not fair go call only celtic out. There has been a fair amount of slinging on both sides.

It's a good reminder for all involved.

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However he's the only one that calls people names and in his last post has a go at the poster not the post. You don't do it and you are disagreeing with posters here so why does he need to feel to actually attack posters?

 

[celtic_crippler]

Surely the rules of MT mean that one should attack the message not the messenger. Celtic Crippler, your points may have merit, they may not but anything you write is nullified by the abuse you seem to like to throw around, it's pointless, if you are correct in your views why do you feel the need to call people names and be quite so obnoxious? Surely your opinion is worth the dignity of writing in such a way that you point your point across without calling people stupid or irrational. The only thing I see that is irrational is your posts, any good points you have to make are swallowed up in the abuse you like handing out. Others are posting opposing views on here without the hysterical name calling you do, is it too much to ask that you post your opinion without actually attacking posters? It makes hard reading when one has to wade through the name calling, the bluster and the sheer hatred you appear to have for certain posters, anything you might want to convince people of just goes down the drain.

What "names" have I called "people"?

I've made observations based on what some "people" have posted. I haven't called anybody a "dirtbag" or "asshat" or anything along those lines.

My most recent observation is a legitamate one, regardless of whether you find it offensvie or not. Based on his posts, he obviously defines his world by his job and that has had a profound influence on his perspective and immovable stance on the issue. It's blatently obvious within every post made. What's offensive about me pointing that out?

Feel free to address my sources and facts, in fact I encourage you to do so. But when your only basis of opinion is ...well... your opinion, and it's based on nothing but your limited perspective, then expect to have that addressed instead.

I've also posted my opinion, but unlike others, I've also posted tons and tons of sources to back it up. It's got nothing to do with how I "feel" about it. My point of view is instead based on reason. I don't "feel" people should be doing meth. It's got to be about the most God-awful thing a human being could put in their body. And the small amount of people that gain access to treatment and do successfully complete rehab for it, are never the same. However, reason requires me to look at the facts and accept that the War on Drugs is an absolute failure and has harmed more people than it has helped. And, as long as we continue down that failed path more people will continue to suffer than just the addicts. And, addicts will conintue to NOT get the treatment they need to hopefully regain some semblance of a life. Yeah, it pisses me off when people are forced to suffer needlessly... especially when the only reason is due to another's ego. So please forgive me for being a little passionate about it.

 

[ballen0351]

For the record my job falls WAY down the list on how I define my world. My children are first and foremost my wife a close second. My other family members, coaching my kids sports, teaching kids at my church karate, training my dogs for retriever and dock diving competitions my former marine corp buddy's and current friends, my aquariums of which I own 6 from 30 gal up to 275 gals, my jeeps and my new boat. All of which I enjoy much much more then my job which is in fact just a job that I count the days until I can retire (11 years 3 months and 4 days. Left) unless I opt out early using my military time but then I don't get medical benefits for 4 years.

 

[WC_lun]

Is it really so difficult to see this issue from the other person's point of view? Ballen is an LEO. He sees the worst part of the abuse of drugs. Is it so hard to understand that he doesn't want anything that might increase that? People like CC see the waste and failure of current policy. Is it difficult to see his viewpoint that we need to change what isn't working? This isn't a simple cut and dry issue. To be on one side of the issue or the other doesn't mean anyone is stupid, lazy, or even incorrect. Maybe try actually reading and understanding the concerns of people from the other point of view.

 

[K-man]

O

A really simple analogy:

Let's say you have a goal to lose 20lbs.

You come up with a diet plan hoping to lose 20lbs.

After 4 months on this new diet plan, you actually gain 20lbs.

Do you continue with that diet plan or do you re-evaluate it and change it?

Yes, you re-evaluate and change. What you don't do is triple the food intake!

:asian:

 

[Makalakumu]

Eventually we're going to come to the conclusion that if we want to preserve individual liberty, we can't control people. We can only influence them.

 

[ballen0351]

Eventually we're going to come to the conclusion that if we want to preserve individual liberty, we can't control people. We can only influence them.

We are not controlling anyone if we were there would be zero drug use. If the govt could control the people there would be zero crime.

 

[ballen0351]

Is it really so difficult to see this issue from the other person's point of view? Ballen is an LEO. He sees the worst part of the abuse of drugs. Is it so hard to understand that he doesn't want anything that might increase that? People like CC see the waste and failure of current policy. Is it difficult to see his viewpoint that we need to change what isn't working? This isn't a simple cut and dry issue. To be on one side of the issue or the other doesn't mean anyone is stupid, lazy, or even incorrect. Maybe try actually reading and understanding the concerns of people from the other point of view.

I see the waist in police work its not just limited to drug work. I understand the point they are making and prior to police work I agreed with them all. That was before I was smacked in the face with the reality of drug use. I understand every point steve and the crip are making I just disagree. In a black and white clinical setting drug use has no effect on anyone other then the user but in reality things are not black and white and I've been working in the grey for a long time and my reality is different then there's.

 

[Tgace]

I see the waist in police work its not just limited to drug work. I understand the point they are making and prior to police work I agreed with them all. That was before I was smacked in the face with the reality of drug use. I understand every point steve and the crip are making I just disagree. In a black and white clinical setting drug use has no effect on anyone other then the user but in reality things are not black and white and I've been working in the grey for a long time and my reality is different then there's.

But..but...but...this link to a study says.

In regards to this conversation, where can it possibly go from here?

 

[Steve]

I see the waist in police work its not just limited to drug work. I understand the point they are making and prior to police work I agreed with them all. That was before I was smacked in the face with the reality of drug use. I understand every point steve and the crip are making I just disagree. In a black and white clinical setting drug use has no effect on anyone other then the user but in reality things are not black and white and I've been working in the grey for a long time and my reality is different then there's.

I've never said that there is no effect on others. Frankly, guys, I'm concerned that no one has actually taken the time to understand the points I've made. I'm concerned because whenever I see someone like Ballen or tgace try to restate them, they are nothing like what I've actually written.

Once again, if everyone is talking, then no one is listening.



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[Tgace]

And I apologize for my drive-by attitude on this thread, but this whole debate gets tiring in its merry-go-round reappearance on the net. Instead of re-typing hours worth of stuff I already typed why not read this thread from 2005 I posted on?

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?19357-The-Legalization-of-Marijuana/page19


http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...Legalization-of-Marijuana&p=353126#post353126

The problem then is why do we all have to pay to pick up the pieces (i.e. social programs for drug rehab, medical expenses, etc.) for those people when their "doing what they want with their bodies" lands them in physical trouble??

Perhaps the solution isnt jail, but there should be some type of penalty when your "freedom" places a burden on the rest of society who isnt taking the drug....

 

[Steve]

And I apologize for my drive-by attitude on this thread, but this whole debate gets tiring in its merry-go-round reappearance on the net. Instead of re-typing hours worth of stuff I already typed why not read this thread from 2005 I posted on?

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?19357-The-Legalization-of-Marijuana/page19

Honestly, I don't mind being disagreed with. I just get concerned when people are disagreeing with a straw an and ascribing those to me.


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[zDom]

I think those who are saying they don't want others 'controlling' their bodies are those who don't have to cope with the aftermath of drug taking and drinking. I don't care what people take either just like Bill, he's right though that when your drug/drink habit impinges on others then it becomes society's business.

Kind of like everyone getting so damned fat that the country falls into a healthcare crisis that necessitates forcing me to pay for a product I don't want and may never, ever need (health insurance) because I invest hours and hours of my time each week and money in preventative health measures?

I kind of feel that is impinging on me big time.

 

[zDom]

If we said Domestic assaults between spouces were up 20% over the last five year the War on domestic violence is a failure we need to just make it legal. After all its my wife why is it any of your concern if I want to smack her around a bit. She stays with me so she doesnt care. I only beat her at home so it does not bother anyone else and look at the super high numbers of guys in jail for beating his wife and they are still married so obviously the wives dont care so why should you. It was legal after all for years remember the "rule of thumb" Ive even got case law to back it up 1868 case, State v. Rhodes, where a husband was found innocent because, the judge said, "the defendent had a right to whip his wife with a switch no larger than his thumb,"
Its the same argument different crime and it sounds insane

Ballen, why do you have to throw up straw men and refuse to stay on topic? It is NOT an apt analogy or example.

Domestic violence is clearly causing direct harm to another citizen.

We all want law enforcement to protect us.

The question is: Do we need law enforcement telling us what we can eat and drink in our pursuit of happiness?

 

[Steve]

law enforcement isn't primarily around to prevent crime or protect citizens. It's to to react to crime and keep peace. Cops dont show up in the nick of time like superheros. They arrive after the fact and handle the fallout.



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[Tgace]

law enforcement isn't primarily around to prevent crime or protect citizens. It's to to react to crime and keep peace. Cops dont show up in the nick of time like superheros. They arrive after the fact and handle the fallout.



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While this likely true in the bulk of situations, I have arrived numerous times at crimes in progress and caught the bad guys. And in other cases, while "after the fact", I have chased down, fought with, or apprehended the crook after fleeing the scene...that whole meme of "you are just report takers" smacks many of us LEO's as yet another attempt to belittle what we do. How long till the "fishermen have a more dangerous job than you" meme arrives? Sure, they are statistically more likely to die, but if we are comparing a fishermans death to the death of a person serving their community than I don't know how to even have a conversation on the subject.

 

[zDom]

MYTH: Alcohol and illicit drugs are no different; thus, it is hypocritical for society to allow alcohol use while outlawing other drugs.

FACT: Alcohol and illicit drugs have a major difference. Most people use alcohol as a beverage and don’t drink to become intoxicated; whereas, with drugs, intoxication is the sole purpose. That is why marijuana smokers seek the higher THC content in marijuana and why crack is so popular among cocaine users. A more factual analogy would be to compare drug use with drunkenness. In addition, illicit drugs are far more addicting than alcohol. Also, approximately one-half of our citizens use alcohol, whereas only approximately eight percent use illicit drugs. In fact, there are almost as many people addicted to alcohol as use illicit drugs. The paradox is, while society is strengthening and demanding stricter enforcement of alcohol laws, there are those who want to decriminalize and even abolish drug laws.

That explains why O'Doul's outsells other products by so much /end sarcasm


So you think that everybody who smokes pot does it to get blasted like Jeff Spicoli?


Did it ever occur to you that there are people who might want to ingest a very small portion based on taste and to "relax"? Anyone I know right now who indulges in pot smoking does it exactly and exclusively in this manner.

 

[ballen0351]

The question is: Do we need law enforcement telling us what we can eat and drink in our pursuit of happiness?

Law enforcement does not tell you anything we do not make laws and we never outlawed anything.
We are only give a task from law makers and told to carry it out.

 

[Tgace]

Perhaps we need to be clear..are we talking ONLY about marijuana legalization here or legalization of ALL drugs. Some of you are not very clear (while other have been).

 

[zDom]

I have let kids grind up their joints and go home on numerous occasions (situation/attitude depending). It's typically enforced when you are dumb enough to be smoking in your car or walking around with a bag in your pocket. Personally...if you are smart enough to keep it to the privacy of your home I could care less if you light up.

Dealers though? Its one thing partaking of an illegal substance, its another matter illegally profiting off of it.

There's the rub, Trace.

What happens when you catch someone growing a plant in their backyard?