Hey fellow artists, I am beginning work on a black belt thesis for Kenpo and could use some help. I am looking at criticism of Kenpo and trying to create drills and practice strategies to help minimize those problems. So what do you think is wrong with American Kenpo?
What's wrong with American Kenpo?
- Thread starter Mark P
- Start date
Hi, Mark, welcome to the forum.
I don't think you can generalize like that. "American Kenpo" would be dependent on an individual school, and I've found that all schools are different.
For your thesis - what criticisms are you trying to create drills and practice strategies for? You might also want to explore where those criticisms came from - which might be an interesting part of your thesis.
Are you looking at American Kenpo as it compares to other Kenpos, either now or in Kenpo's origins?
As for the last part of your post, I don't think there's anything wrong with American Kenpo. (I'm not a Kenpo stylist)
I don't think you can generalize like that. "American Kenpo" would be dependent on an individual school, and I've found that all schools are different.
For your thesis - what criticisms are you trying to create drills and practice strategies for? You might also want to explore where those criticisms came from - which might be an interesting part of your thesis.
Are you looking at American Kenpo as it compares to other Kenpos, either now or in Kenpo's origins?
As for the last part of your post, I don't think there's anything wrong with American Kenpo. (I'm not a Kenpo stylist)
I do like the idea of looking for critiques of your art and figuring out ways to address them. The usual response from many martial artists is to insist that there are no problems with their art.
That said, the question is kind of broad. As Buka notes, there is plenty of variation between schools.
I've certainly seen plenty of kempo demonstrations that I could provide some severe criticism of, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with the art - just with how those individuals were displaying it.
That said, the question is kind of broad. As Buka notes, there is plenty of variation between schools.
I've certainly seen plenty of kempo demonstrations that I could provide some severe criticism of, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with the art - just with how those individuals were displaying it.
Hi Mark,
So we didn't require a thesis at my kenpo school, but when the question came up on the "oral exam" section of mytest, I did turn in a 5 page document listing the things I thought we could better. That may have extended the duration of my test significantly.
I was a kenpo instructor for several years, but eventually left the art because of what I percieve as its shortcomings. In my opinion and in no particular order.
Too much time spent on lengthy memorized techniques, not enough time spent on drills to actually accomplish the flow and checking that is sought. I really like what Zach Whitson did with the his Kenpo Counterpoint work, which eventually morphed into him developing an entire system, the Counterpoint Tactical System. If you can get ahold of it, the Kenpo Counterpoint vid or dvd is well worth your time.
There is a disconnect between sparring and forms and techs. Kenpoists do not look like how they train, generally they look like kickboxers on the sparring floor which is not at all what the forms and techs seem to advocate. When you look at martial arts that spar regularly as part of their training, they look like what their fundamentals advocate. I find a problem when much of the training is focusing on "stone statue" training, that is supposed to be a beginner step, not something you spend 5 years on.
So we didn't require a thesis at my kenpo school, but when the question came up on the "oral exam" section of mytest, I did turn in a 5 page document listing the things I thought we could better. That may have extended the duration of my test significantly.
I was a kenpo instructor for several years, but eventually left the art because of what I percieve as its shortcomings. In my opinion and in no particular order.Too much time spent on lengthy memorized techniques, not enough time spent on drills to actually accomplish the flow and checking that is sought. I really like what Zach Whitson did with the his Kenpo Counterpoint work, which eventually morphed into him developing an entire system, the Counterpoint Tactical System. If you can get ahold of it, the Kenpo Counterpoint vid or dvd is well worth your time.
There is a disconnect between sparring and forms and techs. Kenpoists do not look like how they train, generally they look like kickboxers on the sparring floor which is not at all what the forms and techs seem to advocate. When you look at martial arts that spar regularly as part of their training, they look like what their fundamentals advocate. I find a problem when much of the training is focusing on "stone statue" training, that is supposed to be a beginner step, not something you spend 5 years on.
Validation!
kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
I love those Ameri-do-te videos. I'm a BJJ dude and I still like his BJJ video.
I think the Kenpo Attitude is the biggest problem. You got a problem with that Mr. Big Nose?
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I was a shodan in the Tracy lineage and left it to do other things. I could offer my own observations from that, perhaps best done privately, possibly over the phone would be easiest. Let me know if you are interested.
from what I saw years ago it was the attitude of high ranking people towards lower ranking people.
Example: people over the rank of 5th or 6 dan ignoring 1st -4th dans at tournament because they did not have the rank.
but this could have just been individuals and no a true example of the art.
as with any thing else individuals and each school will vary in what they do and expect and how they present themselves so The problems can not be qualified into a small area
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in truth this whole thread could be considered style bashing
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having made the above statements I must say I was at a Kenpo activity this last weekend and all there respected and talked freely with everyone else no matter what rank so maybe things have changed over the years
Example: people over the rank of 5th or 6 dan ignoring 1st -4th dans at tournament because they did not have the rank.
but this could have just been individuals and no a true example of the art.
as with any thing else individuals and each school will vary in what they do and expect and how they present themselves so The problems can not be qualified into a small area
===================================================================
in truth this whole thread could be considered style bashing
======================================================
having made the above statements I must say I was at a Kenpo activity this last weekend and all there respected and talked freely with everyone else no matter what rank so maybe things have changed over the years
I'd say the fact that you have to write a thesis is what's wrong with kenpo. Even an oral exam as mentioned by blindside is evidence of a possible problem in my book. I suppose it matters how much weight is placed on an exam or thesis. What if a practitioner barely scraped by on technique but nailed the exam? Fighting arts are about physical performance why try to play it up to something more intellectual that it is not? A lot of fighters fancy themselves intellectuals but the truth is there are many dumb fighters and many intelligent people who can't fight, both attributes would be nice but they are two different disciplines. history is good for an instructor to know if it's factual and true but many arts are guilty of spreading myth and hearsay. If an arts primary purpose is fighting ability than that should be how students are graded. Imagine a gymnast being graded on physical ability and written exam. Perhaps exams have some place in martial arts but I'm skeptical of ma that try to take the intellectual approach, it sounds good in theory but in truth an ape can smash someone to pieces. For self defense ability is much more important than thought and conjecture.
I don't think focusing on problem areas is all that intellectual.
kuniggety
2nd Black Belt
I'm not a Kempoist but my guess is that the black belt marks the point where one becomes a teacher of the art. I don't find it that unreasonable to test someone on their knowledge of the history, philosophy, dynamics, and points of contention of the system before they are deemed a "representative" of the art.
on writing a thesis or giving one orally, I would hope that a large consideration was being given for the persons mental capabilities and the amount of education that person has.
We didn't have a thesis requirement at my school because our school founder said that it wasn't something he was required to do or was something that he would have been able to do well. But we did have an oral question and answer period during the black belt test (between all forms and self-defense tech demos and before sparring) where various questions were asked regarding school and lineage history, what would you do in awkward teaching situation X, what their goals were with the martial arts pursuits. It isn't something you could fail but I think it was a good learning experience.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Might be, if the purpose was to look for ways to improve thingsI don't think focusing on problem areas is all that intellectual.
Nobody calls an improvement in Football performance intellectual, but it is; so, why not.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Sure, put some heads together and come up with some solutions. There's brain power working there.Nobody calls an improvement in Football performance intellectual, but it is; so, why not.
Not every black belt wants to be teach.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
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Nobody calls an improvement in Football performance intellectual, but it is; so, why not.
which bit? the training methods,the nutrition,the psychology,the advancement of equipment or the tactics.
because people with degrees are handling those things.