What was Wing Chun designed for?

[drop bear]

Lol, dude, Im not the sharpest tool in teh box, but u are gettin a bit "special" here with lack of understn. Almost looks like u mean to do it. Hes sayin its not gaps cos boxing works against his method. I say fair play an i unerstan his arguments. If boxing works in different way then add it just makes the WC method not work (for him)

But WTF is his method? Looks nuthin like WC to me, an that is main weak point in teh arguments for wat hes doin

After all KPM make WC and boxing work together like a dream!!



wing chun getz uzed in the street fightin people all the time. Doesn't need teh world too see it to know it works!! Its fine for the person that use it

It is much more complex than that. We have two different styles of Chun. One is Ving Tsung. (Excuse the spelling) and one is Wing Chun. VT and WT.

So VT is a complete system and is unable to change easily. WC is not a complete system but can integrate ideas from other styles.

Both styles can cross train in BJJ though for some reason.

WC can incorporate boxing because they have an incomplete method. This is called gap filling.

VT can't incorporate boxing because they have a complete method. But can incorporate BJJ. This is cross training.

Ironically BJJ can incorporate wrestling and judo because of its incomplete method.

Neither WC or VT is seen much outside training individual tales of street awesome.

Both styles claim to be functional.

 

[anerlich]

And functional is kind of the key here I know some guys with some pretty limited knowledge of a particular martial art who beat people up with it.

They don't have the complete system but they have a functional one.

No ideas wat u saying here, sorry dude

It made sense to me.

 

[karatejj]

It is much more complex than that. We have two different styles of Chun. One is Ving Tsung. (Excuse the spelling) and one is Wing Chun. VT and WT.

So VT is a complete system and is unable to change easily. WC is not a complete system but can integrate ideas from other styles.

Both styles can cross train in BJJ though for some reason.

WC can incorporate boxing because they have an incomplete method. This is called gap filling.

VT can't incorporate boxing because they have a complete method. But can incorporate BJJ. This is cross training.

U got it dude! Well dun for tryin, I new u culd get their in teh end

Now wat i want to ask is wy this ving tsung looks total difrent to wing chun???

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

WC can incorporate boxing because they have an incomplete method. This is called gap filling.

VT can't incorporate boxing because they have a complete method. But can incorporate BJJ. This is cross training.

I have not heard any

- wrestler who said if he trains Judo, that will make his wrestling un-pure.
- Judo guy who said if he trains wrestling, that will make his Judo un-pure.

IMO, it's good to know both no-jacket wrestling and jacket Judo.

 

[karatejj]

I have not heard any

- wrestler who said if he trains Judo, that will make his wrestling un-pure.
- Judo guy who said if he trains wrestling, that will make his Judo un-pure.

IMO, it's good to know both no-jacket wrestling and jacket Judo.

i thin ur not unerstan the argumentz like this drop bear guy!!

taht wuld be cross trainin cos they not cover that ground alredy

 

[drop bear]

No ideas wat u saying here, sorry dude

This is functional Muay thai.

this is complete muay thai.

 

[Headhunter]

i thin ur not unerstan the argumentz like this drop bear guy!!

taht wuld be cross trainin cos they not cover that ground alredy

Could you please try and use proper English on here it's hard to understand what you're saying

 

[geezer]

@karatejj: See previous post ^^^^ --Not to dog pile on you or anything, but Tez and others have made the same point to you before. The forum rules allow for informal English, but specifically forbid "text-speak". Everybody makes typos, and some forum members do not speak English as their first language. Fine. We do the best that we can. I'm sure you are capable of writing in conventional English as well. If not, perhaps I can translate: Pleez rite betr cuz ur are reely not doin so gud now. Thankz bro!

 

[geezer]

@LFJ: Just curious. Am I to understand that WSL-VT has no rotational (hooking) punches or lifting (uppercutting) punches? I'm surprised. I have been exposed to several other YM-WC/VT/WT lineages and have always found those movements present, and when I look at WSL-VT forms, I see something that looks similar.

For example, in WT and also in the VT I now train, rotational (hooking) punches are found in Chum Kiu and Biu Tze. First, in Chum Kiu, we have the "hacking-elbow" sequence, basically a double lan-sau coupled with stance turning. Conceptually, this movement allows for rotational attack (and defense). The rotational energy and structure can easily be adapted as an elbow, forearm, or hooking attack. See 2:29-2:31, and again at 2:51-2:55 in the Leung Ting clip below:

In the LT "WT" Biu-Tze form, we can clearly the use of rotational energy to power a hooking punch, which is immediately followed by the elbow dropping back into its normal downward position. See 5:56-5:58 and again at 6:02-6:04 in the same Leung Ting clip below:

Leung Ting clip showing rotational attacks in Chum Kiu and Biu Tze forms:

I found similar rotational movements in Wong Shun Leung's Chum Kiu (0:24-0:28, and again at 1:00-1:04), and in his Biu Jee (2:46-8, and again at 2:52-3):

Wong Shum Leung Chum Kiu form:

Wong Shum Leung Biu Jee form:

Now, I note that in both forms, WSL keeps his arms a bit lower than in the LT forms, and especially in Biu Jee, he maintains a distinctly low elbow position when delivering the rotational punch referenced, but to me (admittedly coming from outside WSL-VT) this still looks like a hook to the body, or at least a VT/WC equivalent! Am I missing something?

 

[karatejj]

@karatejj: See previous post ^^^^ --Not to dog pile on you or anything, but Tez and others have made the same point to you before. The forum rules allow for informal English, but specifically forbid "text-speak". Everybody makes typos, and some forum members do not speak English as their first language. Fine. We do the best that we can. I'm sure you are capable of writing in conventional English as well. If not, perhaps I can translate: Pleez rite betr cuz ur are reely not doin so gud now. Thankz bro!

Sorry dude, im disleksic. See u complaned to teh mods ..will try do beter for futur

 

[karatejj]

This is functional Muay thai.

this is complete muay thai.

Got no ideas what u tryin to say?? Can yourite in plan text? thx

 

[karatejj]

@LFJ: Just curious. Am I to understand that WSL-VT has no rotational (hooking) punches or lifting (uppercutting) punches? I'm surprised. I have been exposed to several other YM-WC/VT/WT lineages and have always found those movements present, and when I look at WSL-VT forms, I see something that looks similar.

For example, in WT and also in the VT I now train, rotational (hooking) punches are found in Chum Kiu and Biu Tze. First, in Chum Kiu, we have the "hacking-elbow" sequence, basically a double lan-sau coupled with stance turning. Conceptually, this movement allows for rotational attack (and defense). The rotational energy and structure can easily be adapted as an elbow, forearm, or hooking attack. See 2:29-2:31, and again at 2:51-2:55 in the Leung Ting clip below:

In the LT "WT" Biu-Tze form, we can clearly the use of rotational energy to power a hooking punch, which is immediately followed by the elbow dropping back into its normal downward position. See 5:56-5:58 and again at 6:02-6:04 in the same Leung Ting clip below:

Leung Ting clip showing rotational attacks in Chum Kiu and Biu Tze forms:

I found similar rotational movements in Wong Shun Leung's Chum Kiu (0:24-0:28, and again at 1:00-1:04), and in his Biu Jee (2:47-8, and again at 2:52-3):

Wong Shum Leung Chum Kiu form:

Wong Shum Leung Biu Jee form:

Now, I note that in both forms, WSL keeps his arms a bit lower than in the LT forms, and especially in Biu Jee, he maintains a distinctly low elbow position when delivering the rotational punch referenced, but to me (admittedly coming from outside WSL-VT) this still looks like a hook to the body, or at least a VT/WC equivalent! Am I missing something?

clip 3 is clip 1 again

 

[geezer]

Just for comparison, here's a guy showing a boxer's low right hook to the body. Check around 1:09-1:20:

Clearly has a different structure than WC/VT, but the essence of the rotational punch? Compare it to WSL's Biu Jee punch with the elbow low arm position. Looks somewhat analogous to me.

 

[geezer]

clip 3 is clip 1 again

Thanks. Got that fixed. Now, how about fixing your writing? Trust me, you will reach a broader audience if you improve the quality of your written expression!

 

[geezer]

Got no ideas what u tryin to say?? Can yourite in plan text? thx

Oh, the irony!

 

[geezer]

Sorry dude, im disleksic. See u complaned to teh mods ..will try do beter for futur

Nope. I didn't complain to the mods. Maybe somebody else did? I'm just complaining to you. Here's a little friendly advice: Just take the time to write "you" instead of "u" and "are" instead of "r" ...oh, and don't use a "z" to make a word plural (boyz). It makes your writing look like it was written by a kid, and people here won't take you seriously.

 

[geezer]

BTW I probably have a bit of ADD, definitely have a touch of OCD, and maybe a bit of dyslexia too. So here's something random and off-topic:

Did you hear about the dyslexic insomniac?


...He'd lie awake at night wondering if there really was a Dog.

 

[anerlich]

Wing Chun was designed by people with remarkable insight.

They knew, that centuries later it would make the perfect subject for long arguments of little value on the internet.

Intelligent design at its best.

 

[Danny T]

Sorry dude, im disleksic. See u complaned to teh mods ..will try do beter for futur

Sorry dude...it's "dyslexic" not disleksic. Purposely writing in some kind of shorthand is a choice not a condition. Your persistent use of what someone called Textspeak is liken to when one speaks a foreign language to a group when one is fluent in the language known by the group. At first it is a bit strained, then it becomes obnoxious especially when it is pointed out that the group has difficulty understanding you, and as one persists they become ignored.
On this forum there are members from all around the world, the key in communicating is writing in a manner all can participate in discussions.

 

[LFJ]

Yeah. See I don't know if I would intentionally create gaps in my striking system by omitting ideas like hooks or advanced footwork concepts.

Up to you. You can't judge whether or not something is a gap for a system you know nothing about, though, because you don't know how it works and what makes it work, or what stops it from working.

Apparently without even wanting find to out, you've already decided what would be "the better" system for you. So, I won't bother describing anything further.