"What ninjutsu wants to be"

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

Thanks for correcting me, Cryozombie (sleep with one eye open)

Bruno, thanks for that insight on the subdivisions of the Chudan levels. I hadn't been aware of that, and I considered it pretty cool. Then, hearing Chris's reference to the genpuku ceremony at 15 also made the 15th dan ranking make more sense.

Either way, it seems cooler to me now.

 

[Cryozombie]

Thanks for correcting me, Cryozombie (sleep with one eye open)

(o) ---

 

[HKToshindo]

As for Stephen Hayes, that has been an issue in the Bujinkan for a little while now. Hayes was the first American to study in Japan and return to teach in the West (for the record, though, not the first Western student in Japan, nor even the first American student. That would be a young Terry Dobson with an even younger Ellis Amdur accompanying him, and Doron Navon of Israel being the first Westerner). However, Hayes has been gradually moving further and further from the teachings of the Bujinkan mainstream, forming his Toshindo organisation, and having fewer trips to Japan. As a result of these and other circumstances, his 10th Dan plaque was publically taken down at the Hombu Dojo a while ago, with his status in the Bujinkan suffering (to put it lightly).

This is incorrect. Anshu Hayes has given the correct version of events. Please look at the following post.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1171966#post1171966

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi HK, welcome aboard.

To state things fairly, I am not a member fo the Bujinkan, Toshindo or other large Ninjutsu organisation, hwever I am a member of the original schools here in Melbourne, under the first Australian to teach the art (Bujinkan back in the day). I personally have a great deal of respect for Sensei Hayes, and feel he is owed a huge debt of gratitude for all the work he has done and all he has achieved in spreading the art worldwide. That said...

There have been numerous accounts of Hayes' plaque being taken down, first-hand accounts by students in Japan at the time, mention on many boards, including the Bujinkans' own, and, to date, no actual denial by any member involved. If you read through the interview with Sensei Hayes carefully, you may notice that the tenses used are all past when talking about Hatsumi Sensei and his training under him. The reason given for the removal of the plaque, as I understand it, is nothing to do with lack of knowledge, training, background, understanding, skill etc, but more to do with the movement away from the current Bujinkan training. You may notice that this is something that Hayes himself talks about (refering to the "ninjutsu training in the 70's" as opposed to the "Budo Taijutsu of today").

So the interview you refered to is actually very cleverly worded to give a link back to Hatsumi still, but doesn't deny the removal of the plaque (instead simply saying that Hayes has yet to hear from Hatsumi if he is out of the family, so to speak), and in all other regards actually supports everything I stated (save earlier students... but that is very well documented as well. Hayes was not the earliest American student, he was the earliest American certified teacher. Small difference).

The thing to remember when reading anything is the agenda behind it, whether from Hayes or Hatsumi, or anyone else, including myself and others here. But, as stated, I have no vested interest in Toshindo or the Bujinkan, so my agenda is just clear information. Take from it what you will.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Here is the Bujinkan's dojo administrator's account of the situation taken from his bulletin board.






Now personally I feel that Stephen Hayes brought a lot of great exposure to the Bujinkan and from all accounts of people that I personally know that have trained with him he is an excellent martial practitioner!

It is concrete that he is doing his own thing with To Shin Do and more power to him. It should also be as no surprise the actions that Hatsumi took. This happens in all organizations so we might as well get over it!


In the martial world people train, grow and advance and some times people take another step and go out on their own. Good luck to Mr. Hayes and To Shin Do!

 

[jks9199]

This is incorrect. Anshu Hayes has given the correct version of events. Please look at the following post.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1171966#post1171966

Like any other event, there are at least 2 sides. (Probably several more in this case...) Neither side is presenting the whole truth; George Ohashi doesn't know why Maasaki Hatsumi had the name plate taken down, or what he meant by it, and Stephen Hayes is (quite understandably) presenting the events and meaning in the best light for him. And nobody but Hayes and Hatsumi knows what their relationship is.

And, in the end, it's immaterial to anyone else. If you train in Toshindo, the Bujinkan, or anything else, and are satisfied with your training, then that's all that matters.