What is Moh Kempo?

Discussion in 'The Great Debate' started by MarkC, May 22, 2008.

  1. MarkC

    MarkC Orange Belt

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    After living near Seattle for almost 8 years, I decided to get off my butt and started looking around for Kenpo/Kempo schools.
    I've met some good people, but today was a bit weird. I went to a place called Academy of Kempo Martial Arts for an "interview".
    Nice place. I was inteviewed by a person wearing a Kung Fu uniform of some type who asked me a few questions that seemed to have little to do with my past in martial arts. I asked abouth the style they taught and was told it translated as Combat Kung Fu, with a base in Moh Kempo.
    I though I was fairly well-educated about most of the various types of Kenpo/Kempo, and I haven't heard of this.
    Then I was proudly told that the Grandmaster and Master were the 23rd and 24th direct descendans of the Shaolin Temple, at which point it became hard to see, since my eyes had rolled way up into my head.
    I left shortly afterwards and made an appointment to visit a Shorinji Kempo club later on, and also found an interesting Kajukenbo school I'd like to check out.
    Does anyone know anything about this Moh Kempo and it's techniques or origins?
     
  2. IWishToLearn

    IWishToLearn 3rd Black Belt

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  3. mrhnau

    mrhnau Senior Master

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    Is that any different than Lez Kempo?

    sorry, could not resist :)
     
  4. tshadowchaser

    tshadowchaser Sr. Grandmaster

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    I know nothing of the school and it’s history and from looking at the web page I know little still.
    As for the instructors and their lineage well there is little on that web sight to give anyone any knowledge of their background .
    Personally if I where you I would look at the other schools you mentioned
     
  5. MarkC

    MarkC Orange Belt

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    I should probably go watch an actual class before making a decision, but I just didn't like the way I was being talked to and I didn't buy much of what I was being told.
    I have found a couple of Universal Kempo classes that I want to check out, as well as Mr. Mateo's Kajukenbo.
     
  6. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    It is always hard to know when you hear an unknown style that claims a DIRECT decendant grandmaster to the Shaolin temple.

    It sounds more like Moh Kempo is after Moh Money
     
  7. MrE2Me2

    MrE2Me2 Yellow Belt

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    Hey Mark C,
    You asked, what is Moh Kempo?
    Oh Boy is that is a loaded question!

    Everything about it is open to debate, even the name.

    Originally, Moh was spelled ‘Moo’.
    It was first taught at ‘Simon Karate Studio’.
    Later the name was changed to ‘Simon Kung Fu’.
    And still later it was changed to ‘Temple Kung Fu’.

    There are allegations that it has gone out of business and reopened as a non profit organization.

    Here is a link to a web page on Moh.
    http://zenshack.net/martialarts/mohkempo.htm


    This is a link to the fifth and (now) only forum still up that is devoted to Moh.
    http://templekungforum.14.forumer.com/

    On the plus side:

    Canada’s first female Black Belt comes from Moh.
    She also taught the Edmonton, Alberta City Police hand to hand before she retired.

    Several Black Belts that have left the original Organization are acknowledged experts in Kung Fu.
    That is to say, their rank has been validated by other Martial Arts organizations.

    Moh has students who are policemen and military personnel and they swear by its effectiveness.

    Many who have left the parent organization still practice Moh (in one form or another).

    On the negative side:

    There have been serious allegations of questionable sales practices.

    There have been serious allegations of the questionable abilities of certain experts of Moh.
    It depends upon who you talk to and when you talk to them.

    Other Information:

    Olaf (Simon) and Doreen (his wife) have retired.
    http://zenshack.net/martialarts/olafsimonhistory.htm

    The committee that has taken over has made the statement that they have a new policy.
    They now offer a smile, a cup of coffee and a handshake to all former students.

    Who am I?
    I am a former student and moderator at the above link.

    ‘Grasshopper’ is the nic of the guy who has done the most online work concerning Moh.
    The above mentioned links were created by him.

    Without Prejudice
     
  8. J.K.

    J.K. White Belt

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    Hi Mark
    and any else interested in Moh Kempo. My $0.02
    Avoid, Avoid,Avoid, Avoid.
    Stay away from ANY place advertising Moh Kempo.
    What is Moh? Hell ask 'em they don't even know.
    Didn't the mystery dude say it was originally spelled Moo?
    like a cow? I always thought that was appropriate 'cuz of all the B.S.

    Moh Kempo was created by a less than ethical man from Canada (Germany or Prussia originally). He took a few lessons from SGM Parker, went back to Canada and proclaimed hisself a Granmaster. Moh kempo contains embryonic Parker motions, mixed with whatever else he had a few lessons
    in. The guy was never ranked by anyone , just slapped on some rank and started cranking out Mcdojos.
    Olaf Simon tried to promote his art as a version of Ed Parker's kenpo by
    telling all sorts of stories to promote his mystique.
    One of the stories that I despise, Is how he (in his words) Wiped the Mat
    w/ Ed Parker. Another proclamation was that Ed bestowed an 8th degree
    black on him because he taught seminars for days on end @ Parker's studio with 300 students or more.
    And STUFF starts piling up from there. There is also a mythical master that was in his family's employ that supposedly taught him all kinds of killer moves as a child. You did get to witness the B.S. about them being the 23rd and 24th descendants right?
    Bottom line is they cannot validate any of their claims or history.
    I was @ GM Picks seminar couple o weeks ago and asked if he had ever heard of the guy. His reply was never. Same with Tatum and Trejo.
    Also he and the "Marg" don't show up on ANY family trees.
    I have a checkered past w/ these guys and have to highly recommend
    avoiding them and their cult like sensibilities.
     
  9. MarkC

    MarkC Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the info. I have done a little research too, and found the saem things, and have out that school on the same list as another that I shouldn't mention....:BSmeter:

    I have found a Kara-Ho Kempo instructor that I like and may join his class soon. Or maybe the Universal Kempo class...
    Or maybe....
     
  10. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Purple Belt

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    LoL....I was thinkin the same thing......More of Less :D
     
  11. J.K.

    J.K. White Belt

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    Hi again Mark,
    If you don't mind me offering a little more advice, I would
    probably go with the Kara-Ho guy. If I didn't have access to the Parker stylists that I do, I would try some kara-ho. I would try to see how tight
    a relationship they have w/ Sam Kuoha.
    Best of luck
     
  12. MarkC

    MarkC Orange Belt

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    Thanks, I plan to go back bnext week.
    And I'll probably make a separate thread about this, but I saw a student perfoerm the Kara-Ho "Combination" form, and although my Kempo isn't related or descended from Professor Chow, I swear I've seen my instructor perform a kata that looked incredibly similar to it.
     
  13. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Grandmaster

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    I heard those chicks were mean. LOL
    Sean
     
  14. Perpetual White Belt

    Perpetual White Belt Blue Belt

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    Damn Dude, you didn't just go there....
     
  15. MrE2Me2

    MrE2Me2 Yellow Belt

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    Hey J.K.

    Didn't you train at moo (pronounced similar to no) for over a decade?

    Also, if you are so well informed; why didn’t you tell them that Olaf and Margitte parted company decades ago?

    Why on earth would you tell people he was from Germany when he clearly stated that he was from Poland?

    Why did you not inform people that he is over eighty years old and the promotion and teaching of Moh Kempo is now left up to a board of senior black belts?

    Why did you not mention the Calgary policeman (and Moh Kempo black belt) who successfully defended himself against a knife wielding assailant who attacked a cab driver and then him?

    Why did you state that Olaf had ‘wiped the map’ with GMEP when that wasn’t the story at all?

    They were training together and Olaf (at five foot six and one hundred and twenty pounds) knocked down the considerably larger GMEP. At that point GMEP got right back up and asked Olaf what he (Olaf) had done.

    Why would Olaf claim that he was awarded an eighth degree black belt if he could ‘wipe the map’ with the man? (Maybe because there was mutual respect between them)

    Did you ask Ed Parker Junior if he had any knowledge of his father teaching Margitte Hilbig during the sixties?

    Why didn’t you tell the man that the old business model has been done away with?

    Why did you feel it necessary to embellish?
     
  16. J.K.

    J.K. White Belt

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    Ahhh, Mystery Dude. The Moo kenpo spin doctor.

    answering your questions in point form

    -Just under 4 years @ tkf
    -If Margite is teaching the same stuff as Olaf, she's guilty. I don't know her that well. But YOU didn't train with her either. So YOU don't know.
    Again, for proclaiming such a strong tie to Parker, yet not showing up on family trees or having ANY seniors know who you are.... Do I have to keep
    painting this picture?
    -What does it matter?
    -He's retired because all of the bad press caught up w/ him. The board is at least as guilty as him as they have done his bidding and been molded by him for years. In short.. THEY were trained by him. How different can they be? You did mention that they were teaching for non-profit, which is good, 'cuz people will finally be gatting their money's worth.
    -We all have stories. Were you there?
    - Olaf's sworn words. the Discovery Document?
    I can do you one better than Ed Parker Jr. I talked to his mother. She had a vivid recollection of Olaf. I'm not going let you know what she said. You wouldn't believe me. It does support my views however.
    - Embellish? There's some spin for ya. Truth is Stranger than fiction.
    How is the Dalai Seng Shi these days?
     
  17. MrE2Me2

    MrE2Me2 Yellow Belt

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    Hey J.K.,

    You posted, “If Margite is teaching the same stuff as Olaf, she's guilty.”
    What, exactly, would Margitte be guilty of?

    You posted, “But YOU didn't train with her either. So YOU don't know.”
    I didn’t start this and to set the record straight; I didn’t train with Olaf either.

    You posted, “Do I have to keep painting this picture?”
    You brought this up to begin with.

    You posted, “He's retired because all of the bad press caught up w/ him.”
    This is your opinion.
    In my opinion, he retired because he got to be 80 years old.

    You posted, “The board is at least as guilty as him as they have done his bidding and been molded by him for years. In short.. THEY were trained by him. How different can they be?”
    Unless you have visited them, you don’t know how different they are now (despite their invite).

    You posted, “I talked to his mother. She had a vivid recollection of Olaf. I'm not going let you know what she said. You wouldn't believe me.”
    So she does remember that he was involved with GMEP…

    You asked, “How is the Dalai Seng Shi these days?”
    I have no idea nor do I care but I find it interesting that you spend so much time venting on this topic.
    American Kenpo has split into many different factions since the passing of GMEP.
    All of the people who are in these factions and post are polite, even when they disagree.
    There is something to be learned there if you would but take the time to think about it.

    Incidentally, my nickname is “MrE2Me2’ (not ‘mystery dude’ or ‘Moo Kempo spin doctor’) and
    I would ask that you address me as such.
     
  18. MarkC

    MarkC Orange Belt

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    Kinda sorry I even asked!
     
  19. J.K.

    J.K. White Belt

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    Yup.
    I'm out on this one too. I gave an accurate truthful response to your question Mark. This stuff has been re-hashed on other boards and I have no desire to bring it here.
     
  20. MrE2Me2

    MrE2Me2 Yellow Belt

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    Hey MarkC,

    There is no doubt that Moh is a controversial art with a colourful past.
    Those that practise it today will be fighting its unpleasant rep for a long time.

    But the original school has different people in charge today.
    And those of us that continue to practise Moh believe in our art.
     

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