Weapons training for the purpose of self defense

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by PhotonGuy, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    When training with weapons for the purpose of self defense it makes sense to train with a weapon that you're likely to have at hand. Training with a guandao can be fun and fascinating but in order for it to be useful in self defense you have to have a guandao with you at the time. You're not all that likely to be carrying one around. From my observation, lots of martial arts schools that teach weapons like to teach sticks since sticks are easy to come by. This does make sense. Not everybody trains with weapons with the goal being self defense but if that is your goal I can see why sticks would be a good weapon to train with.
     
  2. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah see I think you could do well by training concepts instead. So then if you pick up a stick off the ground you don't have to get used to using it.

    In which case train with weapons you use and with ones that are a bit more challenging.
     
  3. frank raud

    frank raud Master Black Belt

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    I am the weapon. The rest is just accessories.
     
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  4. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    yes indeed, train with an every day object you are pretty likely to have with you and is legal to carry, I'm not sure sticks are that easy to find in a,city, ?
     
  5. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 2nd Black Belt

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    It's not just the specific weapons that you can use, but the training itself will benefit you a lot in other ways. The principles you learn with the standard weapons can be applied to makeshift and improvised weapons. If you can skillfully wield a guandao you should be able to also use other long heavy implements that you find, such as farming tools.

    The weapons training can also help with your unarmed combat too. If you can effectively use a pair of Sai or daggers, your hand-to-hand skills should be just as good. Then of course there is gaining knowledge of how to defend yourself against those weapons, even when unarmed yourself. This is invaluable in a self defence scenario.
     
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  6. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    Anyone with common sense isnt going to walk up to the person carrying a guandao and threaten to mug them

    however its good training none the less. Also if you can swing a heavy weapon like a guandao effectivly then swinging a bo or a short stick should be much easier. When I first started training with my kwandao one of the thing s I noticed. My rokushakubo felt very light.
     
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  7. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    This is more my approach, though I agree with the OP's premise. The way I see it, there are two approaches to training weapons for SD.

    1) Train the most likely weapons, like sticks and staves, maybe knives. (For the CWP folks, this would mean training with your common carry weapons.)

    2) Train to be able to use a range of weapons, by training concepts across disparate weapons. In this case, sticks/staves should be part of the training (still the most likely), but you might add in flexible weapons, nunchaku or something equally difficult and different from a stick, and bladed weapons. To make the most use of this, you have to sometimes train one weapon as if it were the other - so, how does a stick operate if I use it for slashing and stabbing? How does a long knife operate if I use it to strike?
     
  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    You're not all that likely in this day and age for an attacker to come at you with a pair of sai. They are much more likely to come at you with a knife or gun. So, being able to defend against weapons, being able to defend against daggers can be good if somebody is coming at you with a knife but you will probably not face somebody coming at you with sais. But you do make some good points about weapons training improving your unarmed fighting skills and making you all around a better hand to hand combatant. In Filipino stick fighting you start with learning how to fight with sticks and then move on to unarmed fighting for that reason.
     
  9. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    You probably aren't going to be carrying around an guandao. First you have to be legally able to, the law might not allow it. Aside from that a guandao is large and awkward to carry around and even if you legally can carry it you're going to get lots of strange looks.

    But you're right that it can help you handle other weapons easier such as sticks which are much easier to come by.
     
  10. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 2nd Black Belt

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    Sai are typically a lot harder to defend against than normal knives, so if you can defend against Sai, you should be fine against a single knife. It's interesting that the FMA do weapons before unarmed, when in traditional CMA you always do hand combat before learning any weapons. In fact, you could be training unarmed combat for up to 5 years before being let anywhere near a weapon, and even then you are only trained to use a Staff.
     
  11. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    Ive never had any problems with the law. I take mine to class and bring it home. When its in the car I keep it in its bag zipped up. if cops ask ill tell them im taking it to class/home. But I can see your point. some cops are more strict than others and may give you a fine. One guy I know got a warning because he had a tiny pair of toy nunchaku hanging from his rear view mirror.
     
  12. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    I'm not sure where you live, but I'm very unlikely to find heavy farm tools lying around at all, certainly not handily available if someone attacks me, surely from a self defence point of view, you want a weapon that can be carried about your person and not raise suspicion, I'm most unlikely to be given admitance to a pub if I'm carrying a heavy farm implement,at the very least it has to fit in your pocket and not be illegal to carry and then train yourself to use it, what ever it is ,effectively . Rather than train yourself to use something that will never be available?
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Agreed. I can imagine some scenarios with similar weapons (hardware store, etc.), but they'd be the exception. Perhaps we could find reasonably heavy implements in many situations that might substitute in a pinch.
     
  14. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    The weapon training I received in Kung Fu felt disjointed from the empty handed techniques. Not that the training itself was flawed, but the weapons were so exotic I didn't see any overlap with the empty hand. The footwork, movements and overall method felt very different. However; Kali uses sticks for a few reasons. One reason being the attack/defense angles, footwork and techniques are very similar, thus it all overlaps. The range obviously changes, but the overall dynamics changes very little. As far as everyday carry, there are collapsible batons you could carry if you really want to. However; carrying a Dao or Jian is unrealistic.
     
  15. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 2nd Black Belt

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    This is probably the biggest difference between the US and the UK for self-defence. In the UK we aren't allowed to carry anything that could be used to harm another person, concealed or otherwise, so the only things you have to defend yourself with are whatever you can grab at the time. When the last London attack happened, the people confronting the attackers didn't have any real weapons with them, so used chairs and beer bottles to defend themselves with, since that was all they had available. I can definitely see the point in training weapons you can carry around with you all the time, but we very rarely have that option over here.
     
  16. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Are you going to be walking down the street with a guandao?
     
  17. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    only if ive been drinking too much

    although technically i never really claimed the guandao itself would be used for self defense. merely something for training purposes.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    well no, that's not the UK law, you can carry any thing that isn't designed(or modified) as a weapon and which you don't have intent to use as a weapon, with the prosicution needing to prove your intent . Which is near impossible unless you admit to it
    so the list of things that you could carry, that would come in handy if attacked is nearly endless.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  19. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 2nd Black Belt

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    Nope. The law states that you aren't allowed to carry items that could be used to harm another regardless of whether you plan on using it for self-defence or not, unless you have a valid reason for carrying them for professional, educational or medical reasons. So for example, a builder could justifiably carry a hammer in his belt down the street if he is going to his job, but I am not a builder so I am not allowed to carry a hammer in public.
     
  20. Midnight-shadow

    Midnight-shadow 2nd Black Belt

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    Ugh I'm too tired for this. Forget my last post, it's wrong with regards to the law.
     

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