we are bad very bad

[Manny]

This is something I think of my dojang. The kids on dojang know how to deliver a good dolyo chagi or use a combo using roundhose kicks to the torso, they are good in this but...... in self defense aplications they simply s......s!!!!!

The one step sparring they do is flopy, lazy and in some cases dangerous, the truth to be told as we see maybe a handfull of one step sparring and almost all the same techs of self defense the kids have tha false sense they can defend themselves form a bully kid or an adult man.

I come from the old school so my self defense techs are good, simple and efective plus the techs I am learning from Kenpo are broading my spectrum.

This makes me believe that in our dojos we are teaching very well how to kick but what when the bad guy is over us? grabing us and taking us to the ground, or when bad people kick us or punches us without mercy.

We have to encourage our senseis/sambunims to teach us simple,efective and quickly self defense techs as ofthen as we do sparring or kicking techs.

Manny

 

[granfire]

That is a tough call.

Most bullies are well served with a good roundhouse, though I have heard of a case were he cam back and brought some friends...

As to ground defense, it can be integrated in the program, I never liked the course though (but I have no illusions, if my 5'5", currently 140lbs get pinned by a 200lbs guy, I think I am pretty much toast)

But you have to also consider, that most people never need SD, or in many case Nikedo is the best solution. If the individual has a little bit of brains, the handful of rusty SD techniques will not tempt them to go visit the bad side of town.

However, training itself changes the way we project ourselves to the world. More upright, with that spring in our step, we make less desirable targets. And last, never underestimate the raw power of adrenalin.

 

[terryl965]

Manny I will give you take on it, Self Defense is up to the person. What I mean is simple, everybody could do there SD with power and be on target, people tend to go though the motion to be a part of something. You know you are from a sport school right now so accept that for what it is and enjoy, do your real SD at your Kempo school. Never ever get things mixed up to the fact of not knowing the difference between each school. My competition team understands it is just competition and not self defense, if they want SD they need to come to specific SD types of classes I hold because in the comp. classes it is not about SD. They need to be kept seperate at all times.

 

[igillman]

Manny, the lazy, floppy one-step sparring only occurs because the teacher lets it occur. Take a step back and see what is being focused upon during the classes and during belt testing. If belt testing requires very good kicks but does not require good one-step techniques then that is the type of student you will end up with.

 

[Tez3]

That is a tough call.

Most bullies are well served with a good roundhouse, though I have heard of a case were he cam back and brought some friends...

As to ground defense, it can be integrated in the program, I never liked the course though (but I have no illusions, if my 5'5", currently 140lbs get pinned by a 200lbs guy, I think I am pretty much toast)

But you have to also consider, that most people never need SD, or in many case Nikedo is the best solution. If the individual has a little bit of brains, the handful of rusty SD techniques will not tempt them to go visit the bad side of town.

However, training itself changes the way we project ourselves to the world. More upright, with that spring in our step, we make less desirable targets. And last, never underestimate the raw power of adrenalin.

I wouldn't say that is necessarily so but ground work for self defence, well anything really has to be drilled and drilled until it's instinctive then it works. Just learning a little like all techniques and expecting it to work is pointless. As you rightly point out it's dangerous to rely on rusty SD technques.

 

[ATC]

Manny, what we are doing now is putting on the hogu and head gear and doing SD for real (as real as we can). We punch, elbow, knee and whatever with real power. Even with the hogu on it hurts like hell but you don't get brusied as much and no broken bone (so far).

This allows the defender to do each technique without holding back (except to the face and head) and you get instant feed back as to if you really can hit hard enough to stun a person.

Many of our student are finding out that hitting hurts just as much as getting hit. They are also finding out that they can't even deliver some of their techniques properly and are putting themselves in more danger because of this.

This is something everyone should try. It will be an eye opener for some.

 

[granfire]

I wouldn't say that is necessarily so but ground work for self defence, well anything really has to be drilled and drilled until it's instinctive then it works. Just learning a little like all techniques and expecting it to work is pointless. As you rightly point out it's dangerous to rely on rusty SD technques.

yes, very true.
We had the little (or rather big) handicap that our hands on training was strictly segregated by gender. I have heard the most dangerous figters can be the tough little ones, but you really can't train against the average 6 foot something heavy male when you train with 5 foot nothing girls.

The slide out of trouble, the right way to get back up on your feet to either fight or run, all of that has to be trained, as it is very unusual from our 'normal' way of doing things.

 

[Manny]

Manny, what we are doing now is putting on the hogu and head gear and doing SD for real (as real as we can). We punch, elbow, knee and whatever with real power. Even with the hogu on it hurts like hell but you don't get brusied as much and no broken bone (so far).

This allows the defender to do each technique without holding back (except to the face and head) and you get instant feed back as to if you really can hit hard enough to stun a person.

Many of our student are finding out that hitting hurts just as much as getting hit. They are also finding out that they can't even deliver some of their techniques properly and are putting themselves in more danger because of this.

This is something everyone should try. It will be an eye opener for some.

You got it! I think this is one of the forms we should practice self defense.

Manny

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

This is something I think of my dojang. The kids on dojang know how to deliver a good dolyo chagi or use a combo using roundhose kicks to the torso, they are good in this but...... in self defense aplications they simply s......s!!!!!

The one step sparring they do is flopy, lazy and in some cases dangerous, the truth to be told as we see maybe a handfull of one step sparring and almost all the same techs of self defense the kids have tha false sense they can defend themselves form a bully kid or an adult man.

I come from the old school so my self defense techs are good, simple and efective plus the techs I am learning from Kenpo are broading my spectrum.

This makes me believe that in our dojos we are teaching very well how to kick but what when the bad guy is over us? grabing us and taking us to the ground, or when bad people kick us or punches us without mercy.

We have to encourage our senseis/sambunims to teach us simple,efective and quickly self defense techs as ofthen as we do sparring or kicking techs.

Manny

Here is a question: are the one steps connected with the rest of the material?

In other words, are they sparring drills intended to make the students better in competition or do they address actual self defense?

Or are they just these exercises that are only done to get through a belt test?

If the latter, then they will be floppy and lousy because the students will see them as a useless unrelated exercise. The teacher also needs to be riding them for poor performance and not promoting them until they clean up their act.

Daniel

 

[granfire]

Manny, what we are doing now is putting on the hogu and head gear and doing SD for real (as real as we can). We punch, elbow, knee and whatever with real power. Even with the hogu on it hurts like hell but you don't get brusied as much and no broken bone (so far).

This allows the defender to do each technique without holding back (except to the face and head) and you get instant feed back as to if you really can hit hard enough to stun a person.

Many of our student are finding out that hitting hurts just as much as getting hit. They are also finding out that they can't even deliver some of their techniques properly and are putting themselves in more danger because of this.

This is something everyone should try. It will be an eye opener for some.

Macho used to have a SD kit: a mugger set with huge helmet, and total body armor, and the student kits with a few less pieces.
fashioned after the likes of 'model mugging' perp from the 80s.

 

[StudentCarl]

There's an old saying among experienced parents and teachers:

You get what you put up with.

Your expectations and how you lead students to achieve them is key.

It's also true that instructor and student have an understanding of what the student is to learn. The instructor is more knowledgeable and is responsible to define clearly what they are teaching and market the effectiveness of it for it's purpose. The student chooses what they want to sign up to learn.

Whether the purpose is exercise, sport competition, or self-defense, the content may vary. The student is responsible to supply the effort, both physical and mental. The instructor sets the standards and teaches to help the student meet them.

It's good to remember that instructors are human too. Unfortunately some instructors teach with the same lack of focus that their students have when they throw sloppy kicks in crooked stances with flailing arms. Instructors must not become hypnotized by routine.