Using Nails in a Fight, Effective of Ineffective?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Kane, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    If, for example, you're jamming your fingers into your attacker eyballs as if to scratch the back of his skull through his sockets, then I would argue that you are attacking with your fingers and entire body (that is behind your "claw"). Nails may slightly multiply the force, but in most cases they aren't really what makes the tactic work.

    Paul
     
  2. dubljay

    dubljay Master of Arts

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    California
    For myself using figner nails in a fight would be about as effective as beating them with a wet tortilla considering I have the nasty habit of chewing on my finger nails.
     
  3. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,751
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    173
    The only use for the nails would be using one to scratch or punture the eyes. I've been scratched, it's annoying and it's likely to make me mad, but other than that it's futile.
     
  4. KenpoTex

    KenpoTex Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2004
    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Springfield, Missouri
    A couple more thoughts...
    This is an excellent point. In my experience (and I'm sure quite a few of you can relate) I don't know how many times I've been scratched, scraped, bruised, gouged, etc. in class and, due to addreneline, didn't notice until either after class, or until someone said "hey dude, you're bleeding." A lot of times, you just don't feel it, and that's just in class.
    That is one way to look at it, on the other hand, when you jam your thumbs up to the second joint into someone's eyes, it ain't gonna matter how long (or short) your nails are.
     
  5. MJS

    MJS Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    30,187
    Likes Received:
    426
    Trophy Points:
    208
    Location:
    Cromwell,CT
    They, just like all of our tools in SD, have their place and time. Its a matter of knowing what the correct place and time is. A scratch is certainly not a fight stopper, but it may give you that momentary distraction to set something else up. An example of this could be from a bear hug position. Digging your nails into the lat muscle area, can provide a momentary distraction to set up other counters.

    Is it the end all be all of techs? Nope, but again, its simply a tool to have in your box, should you choose to use it.

    Mike
     
  6. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Messages:
    13,887
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I'm going to have to go with Paul on this one. In opinion, for self defense, one has got to develop powerful strikes to vulnerable parts of the body. One must learn how to throw someone to the ground. One must learn how to fall and fight on the ground. Use simple techniques that maximize your speed and strength.

    I'm afraid that using your nails or keys, unless used against extremely vulnerable areas of the body, will only be a waste of the precious time that one does not have in a real fight.
     
  7. sgtmac_46

    sgtmac_46 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Messages:
    4,751
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    173
    You got a point there.
     
  8. MA-Caver

    MA-Caver Sr. Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Messages:
    14,960
    Likes Received:
    307
    Trophy Points:
    193
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I do agree yes, that between adults it may not be as dibilitating <sic> as say between two kids. Yet, during the jr. high fight; I wasn't going for his eyes or other vitals on his face either, I just wanted to get the hell away from him because I knew (instinctively??) if he got started on me I'd be hurting ... bad.
    If I'm ever in that situation again (hopefully never :rolleyes: ) I would definitely use what-ever means necessary to hurt my opponent as much as possible to end the fight as quickly as possible. If that means digging what nails I may or may not have into vitals then by all means .. hell yeah! :D

    I like what Tess said about giving them a possible staph infection on top of whatever hurt you inflict. Keep 'em hurting long afterwards. Hopefully (again) it'll make 'em think twice.

    Yeah older brothers are cool ... sometimes. heh While mine stuck up for me at school, he beat the crap out of me whenever we got into it at home... so it balanced out. :lol:
     
  9. Gin-Gin

    Gin-Gin Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Yes, but your classmates aren't trying to hurt you; on the street is a different situation/environment. As MJS said, "they, just like all of our tools in SD, have their place and time. Its a matter of knowing what the correct place and time is."
    That's what I'm talking about! :D
     
  10. still learning

    still learning Senior Master

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,749
    Likes Received:
    42
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Hello, This is just another weapon that can be use. Long or short it can still hurt you. Can be effective against the eyes. No ones likes to get scar by nails. Ever got pinch by someone with long nails? Ouch!
    Real fights has no rules, use what you got. ......Aloha
     
  11. JAMJTX

    JAMJTX Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    211
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Anything that works!
    Finger nails, especially in the eyes, can inflict some pain.
    This type of pain is not severe and will only really be a distraction but it will give you a chance to either get away or get in another shot. Nails in the eyes is another story.

    Also, scratching will make sure you get some of your attackers DNA which can be used as evidence if needed.
     
  12. kenpo tiger

    kenpo tiger Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    98
    I do. *after all, I'm a tiger:)*

    I have had long nails since I began MA over nine years ago and they have not hindered my training. In fact, you should realize that having long (or longer) nails is an asset to an extent in kenpo. With all the eye rakes, gouges, eye fans and claws we employ in our techs, it doesn't matter if *one* has long(er) nails.

    Tulisan,
    I think you haven't understood what MJ was describing upthread. When we teach our women's self defense classes, the students are women who are not martial artists. We are teaching them ways of defending themselves to enable them to feel that they CAN fight back and that they can get away to safety or get help by using their natural weapons. It takes a while for women to adjust to hurting anyone. We're nurturers by birth.

    However, I agree with you in that *one* should not rely solely upon scratching in a fight. kt
     
  13. Zepp

    Zepp Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    21
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    The woods of Marin County, California, USA
    As FearlessFreep has already noted, long nails tend to get in the way of making a tight fist. If you train to fight with open-handed strikes, relying on palm strikes, knifehands, etc., then keeping your nails long might be more practical. If you do a lot of grappling work in your training, then I imagine having long nails will probably piss off your training partners.
     
  14. Raewyn

    Raewyn Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,242
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Hey, this post probably belongs to the LLR but how do you stop your nails from bending....... say backwards. I went to push someone away one time and my thumbnail (quite long at the time) actually bent back halfway down the base of my nail...........man what a killer that was. I also have a tendency of scratching myself. Also how do you manage to close your fist??
     
  15. Cruentus

    Cruentus Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,162
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    At an OP in view of your house...
    For the record, I don't just teach "martial arts" stuff. I teach stuff that works in self-defense. Beyond my private training group, I am also on staff with a larger self-defense training company here in Michigan where we teach self-defense to many different target groups. We have specific courses for women. We have accredited college courses for self-defense as well. The end of these classes involves scenario training where the instuctors dress up in FIST padded suits and the students practice what they have learned in as realistic of a way that I have seen available today.

    That said, I know what works in self-defense, and I will say it again: tactics that rely on "pain compliance" or superficial damage are not reliable against an attacker who is really intent on hurting you. Period. I will also say again that If you're using your FINGERS to jam your fingers far into the attackers eyesockets, and you happened to have nails that multiply the force, then great. If your trying to superficially scratch your attacker, your wasting valuable time and energy when you need to be creating more trauma to stop and provide an escape. Who wins the fight is who brings the most, first; and every second wasted increases the danger to the defender.

    Now, if it is a semantics thing, and people are thinking "eye gauge" as I describe when they say "use your nails," then fine. I would suggest using a different explaination, though, as someone could mistake what you are trying to say and be thinking "kitty scratches" when that is not what you mean. But at least we probably agree more then we disagree.

    If it is not a semantics thing, then I am sorry, but I don't know what to tell you. I know what works and what doesn't, and I stand behind what I say.

    I hope you don't take offense to my uncompromising attitude, but this is something I feel very strongly about. If we were just talking about "martial arts" then heck, we could theorize all day long about stuff that may or may not work. But if we are talking self-defense, it HAS to work. I would hate to see someone hurt or killed because of bad information - and there certianly is a lot of it out there.

    Paul
     
  16. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    Messages:
    7,766
    Likes Received:
    408
    Trophy Points:
    208
    In a true "fight" you could have bones broken and never even know it until its over. Id never rely on "pain compliance" techniques in self defense situations. Those work in LEO situations where you have to "persuade" "maybe people" into doing what you want. Rarely of practical use in civilian SD.....
     
  17. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Messages:
    13,887
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Why does there have to be a difference between the two? In your "art" it sounds like "martial arts stuff" and "self defense" are one in the same.
     
  18. DarrenJew

    DarrenJew Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Why does there have to be a difference between the two?

    Every person has their own reasons to take Martial Arts. Some for “Self Defense”, some for competition, some just as for the sake of the Art itself.

    In self defense, you are expecting some to attack you that is going to be stronger and more aggressive than you. You should consider using things like throwing dirt into the eyes of your assailant (Things, not normally covered in the art itself). Your objective is to get away… not necessarily to subdue. But after all is said and done your original Martial Arts techniques will be a combination of many things.

    For Competition, depends on the type of competition. But any people that compete will mix several different Art forms to try to give them selves an edge. Often the people will just pick what the feel is useful and discard what does not seem to work for them. Though some competitions may be purely one style that excludes other types of martial arts. Over all the aim is to win, getting away is not an option.

    If you’re a purist, then you take the art to perpetuate just the art in itself, without mixing other forms of fighting to preserve its identity. (Note you may take multiple styles of Martial Arts and still preserve each art in their original form.)

     
  19. Gin-Gin

    Gin-Gin Senior Master

    • Martial Talk Alumni
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Hi Raisin,
    I'll send you a PM on this.

    Gin-Gin :)
     
  20. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2003
    Messages:
    13,887
    Likes Received:
    232
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Location:
    Hawaii
    The beauty of art is that it can take many forms. If one wants to express themselves martially from a purely self defense perspective they are not any less of a martial artist in my opinion. Within the martial arts community there are people who see Art one way and think that it can't be another way. I disagree with that sentiment whenever I see it.123
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
are nails good for self defense
,
fighting with nails
,
fingernails as weapons
,
how to sharpen nails
,
how to use your nails as weapons
,

long nails fighting

,
long nails scratching eyes out
,
long nails scratching fights
,

nails as weapons

,
sharp nails scratching story
,
stories with women scratching their attacker face long fingernails
,
using fingernails as weapons
,
using nails in a fight
,

women fighting off their attacker stories with long fingernails