universal pattern

[rmcrobertson]

Is the universal pattern flat? is it genuinely universal? does all of it have to be on the floor at once?

First time I talked to Clyde, about--yikes--nine years ago, he showed me his then-new tattoo. Being a teacher, a bit of a snoot, and alarmed by him, I said, "Gee. I didn't know you were allowed to write the answers on your arm."

Amazing I'm still alive, when I think about it.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

Is the universal pattern flat? is it genuinely universal? does all of it have to be on the floor at once?

First time I talked to Clyde, about--yikes--nine years ago, he showed me his then-new tattoo. Being a teacher, a bit of a snoot, and alarmed by him, I said, "Gee. I didn't know you were allowed to write the answers on your arm."

Amazing I'm still alive, when I think about it.

It would be cool to have an entire room that is just one big universal pattern.

 

[Rainman]

As for the universal pattern, it is another tool to get people thinking about movement. You can use it for teaching for example, to explain the clock system .Use it as such and don't try to read too much into it. All movement should be found within it and by studying it you may find new patterns of movement that you did not know existed. It also contains the plus sign and the multiplication signs. Kenpo equivalents being extensions for the plus sign and compound and inserts for the multiplication sign.

If you are going to lablel the UP it is a master key concept, Which basically means many things fall under its domain. You must have a teacher that knows how to use it or be so driven you begin to figure out what you can do with it. AK is full of abstract thought, that is the whole thing that makes it a living and breathing conceptual vehicle after a period of time in the art.

Don't be so quik to form opinions, that is what stunts your growth and corrupts an ability to move out of concrete operations. Concrete operations are something like this: Delayed sword, block-kick-chop, that is what I see that is all there is because that is what I see. There is more trust me, Ive paid a heavy price to come to that understanding... I believe I have also shared some insights for folks to look at and grow from.

 

[Robbo]

Don't be so quik to form opinions, that is what stunts your growth and corrupts an ability to move out of concrete operations.

What I posted about the UP is what I know at this point. There is probably a lot more to it which I don't know. But your original question was how do people use the UP....I posted a reply.

Could YOU give the board furthur insights on how you use the UP...please.

Rob

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Robbo



What I posted about the UP is what I know at this point. There is probably a lot more to it which I don't know. But your original question was how do people use the UP....I posted a reply.

Could YOU give the board furthur insights on how you use the UP...please.

Rob

Okay here is one I don't think I put forth very well. Put the 3d image on top of the flat image so they sit like a cup and saucer- stand in the center of both in a natural stance spine in the direct center of both. Extend your hand and extend your feet- look around see what you find out about range which leads to...

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I don't find any humor in statements such as AK has big holes in it. If it has big holes then someone isn't using the optimum angles for entry and departure. Where do you think you may find these answers? I'll give you a hint THE UNIVERSAL PATTERN It's even in the II for quik reference.

I'm not sure that anyone expected you to find humor in such statements. I know I didn't, that's why I've been trying to learn as much as I can about groundfighting. The conclusion that "I" came to, was that EPAK doesn't offer much of anything in the way of groundfighting. Does that mean Ed Parker knew nothing about it, NO. That just means that he didn't put it into his system.

So far you've offered up the 3-d universal symbol as your answer to the gaps. That's not an answer, it's a cute little representation of the "Infinite Motion" of american kenpo. I tell you what, you train with the universal symbol for sixth months and I'm gonna go train with a knowledgeable BJJ instructor for sixth months and we'll see who fills the gap faster. While I agree that the universal pattern, in it's three dimensional representation, supplies an infinite number of motion patterns, I have to wonder how effective your response would be without any real ground experience. How would you pick your patterns of motion. Remember that while all things may be possible, not all things are beneficial; and in a fight you have very little time to distinguish between the two.

Don't be so quik to form opinions, that is what stunts your growth and corrupts an ability to move out of concrete operations.

I agree that you shouldn't be quick to form opinions, which is why I posted the Groundfighting question to begin with. I don't purport to know everything about kenpo, but I know what I know and that's all I can base things from. However, when the only people who are posting are either 1) non-experienced groundfighters 2) people who learned groundfighting somewhere else 3) or people who belong to a system that teach their own unique techniques (i.e. not EPAK), then you kind of have to assume that no one really knows the AK correlation.

There is more trust me, Ive paid a heavy price to come to that understanding... I believe I have also shared some insights for folks to look at and grow from.

Well, that's fine if there is more to this topic please share. As for you sharing insights for folks to look at and grow from, that is for them to decide.

 

[Rainman]

I am open to questions but not rants. Your mind is closed there is nothing I can do for you.

 

[ProfessorKenpo]

Originally posted by jeffkyle




It would be cool to have an entire room that is just one big universal pattern.

Holographic displays are not that far away Jeff. In a few short years we might be able to put that very image up and move around in it for our size.


Have a great kenpo day

Clyde

 

[satans.barber]

Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo



Holographic displays are not that far away Jeff. In a few short years we might be able to put that very image up and move around in it for our size.


Have a great kenpo day

Clyde

Yeah, and little tin robots will vaccuum up for us too, it's gonna be great....



Ian.

 

[Eraser]

Does this mean.. i'll finally get my light sabre??????


rofl

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Rainman
What does anyone use the universal pattern for?

Anything they want........ multi-useful....

D - M - P - D - A

Much of what you can do standing up, you can do lying down or from a different prospective, it does take adjustments at times.

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7



Anything they want........ multi-useful....

D - M - P - D - A

Much of what you can do standing up, you can do lying down or from a different prospective, it does take adjustments at times.

:asian:

The great voice of reason (and information) from the Southwest. Direction-method-9p-dimensionalzones-and compound levers.


:asian:

 

[Robbo]

I know that you should be able to adapt your techniques to the situation whether standing up or down. So why did Mr. Parker choose standing up face to face to illustrate the concepts (SD techniques), was it simpler to illustrate his concepts? Would it not have been better if he put a couple in that defended from the ground, mounted position, etc? I know in our system there is only 1 technique where you get pushed to the ground and have to defend from there. Granted at 1st deg you do learn groundwork SD, but as far as the 'official' SD tech up to Black there is only 1. And although I don't know all the techniques in EPAK there also seems to be a lack of conceptual SD that are done from the ground in the ideal phase. It sounds like you have to be in the exploring frame of mind with these techniques and as everybody knows this can take years to develop while you internalize the concepts and ideas found in the 'standard' SD techs.

Is this a weakness, wait wrong term, oppourtunity for improvement in the system? Why do we have to wait for the what if phase to explore these options?

Thanks,
Rob

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Robbo
So why did Mr. Parker choose standing up face to face to illustrate the concepts (SD techniques), was it simpler to illustrate his concepts?

I believe that during the early times the most common attacks dictated the curriculum that we use, as time went on, he realized the need for a greater stress on groundwork. He knew the answers was built into the principles but had not clearly inserted specific "techniques" in the curriculum yet, prior to his passing.

Would it not have been better if he put a couple in that defended from the ground, mounted position, etc? I know in our system there is only 1 technique where you get pushed to the ground and have to defend from there. Granted at 1st deg you do learn groundwork SD, but as far as the 'official' SD tech up to Black there is only 1.

Yes it would, and he was working on Kenpo Grappling but as fate would have it, unfortunately for us, time ran out...... Mr. Parker often said, "it would take several lifetimes to learn/understand all there is to Kenpo", so it is left up to us to continue.

:asian:

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Robbo

ISo why did Mr. Parker choose standing up face to face to illustrate the concepts (SD techniques), was it simpler to illustrate his concepts?
Rob

At the yellow belt level there are a few techniques where you are not face to face....sword and hammer, captured twigs. it goes from there...Obscure claws, obscure sword, cross of destruction, fallen cross, there are several that you dont start face to face,

Did you mean maybe not illustrating any starting point from from the ground? There are plenty of techniques where you arent "face to face"

Some ground fighting techniques incorporating kenpo principles would be very awsome in our system

 

[Robbo]

Did you mean maybe not illustrating any starting point from from the ground?

That is what I meant as opposed to a standing position. I am aware that there are lots of techs that deal with rear attacks, side attacks, chokes, etc. I guess you caught me on that one.

Some ground fighting techniques incorporating kenpo principles would be very awsome in our system

Did you mean you DO have them or you are saying that if they were developed by Mr. Parker then they would be really cool.

Mr. Parker often said, "it would take several lifetimes to learn/understand all there is to Kenpo", so it is left up to us to continue.

But can you add that material and still claim to teach EPAK? With all the critics running around I'm sure someone would say something and after listening to that crap long enough would you make the EPAK that you teach with the groundwork a offshoot of EPAK and call it something else. It seems you can't add anything significant to EPAK without changing it and if you change it significantly how do you propagate it so that all the other EPAK schools can take advantage of your contribution?...if they choose to.

Or...do you have enough on your hands just trying to keep everybody talking to each other.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Eraser

Does this mean.. i'll finally get my light sabre??????


rofl

Yes, but first, I'm still waiting for my Universal pattern T shirt! So, where is it?:soapbox:

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by RCastillo



Yes, but first, I'm still waiting for my Universal pattern T shirt! So, where is it?:soapbox:

E-Bay

 

[Rob_Broad]

If kenpo is to be constantly evolving, why would, adding something to the program signifcantly change things?

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Robbo
But can you add that material and still claim to teach EPAK?

IMHO..... Sure you can. If you take what he gave us and adhere to the principles...... what would you call it? ........ Whether it is "arranged" by you, me or someone else, .... as long as it remains within the boundaries of principles outlined.... it's EPAK no matter who rearranged it.

With all the critics running around I'm sure someone would say something and after listening to that crap long enough would you make the EPAK that you teach with the groundwork a offshoot of EPAK and call it something else.

Well the critics were always there and always will be ... so I just ignore their comments.

It seems you can't add anything significant to EPAK without changing it and if you change it significantly how do you propagate it so that all the other EPAK schools can take advantage of your contribution?...if they choose to.

Kenpo is all about different perspectives...... Mr. Parker understood that there was more than "one way" to arrive at a solution to any given salutation, thus his option concepts, such as the equation formula and other Kenpo Tools. Logic and reality are fundamental, so you can change from the base of the curriculum... (all the good advanced Black Belts already know this) so change is not an issue to most in my opinion.

How to propagate to others, well that is a whole nuther issue... LOL. Those that want to share will, those that don't won't, those that wish others to share that don't are dreamers.

Hint.......... Seek those that will share, and forget the rest.

:asian: