Universal Pattern

[GouRonin]

It's a long way from the bathroom, er "Library."

 

[brianhunter]

so what was the result?? can it be used???

 

[KENPOJOE]

Hi Folks,
I realize i'm new to this kenpo board but i'm not new to kenpo! I thought i'd address a pfew posts and answer some questions i saw posted here...
First of all,regarding the Universal pattern: The symbol is indeed copywrited to the best of my knowledge and originally appeared in the "Secrets of Chinese Karate" [SOCK] by Ed Parker. It was subsiquently used in Infinite insights into kenpo:Vol 4 extensively. As an earlier poster mentioned,copywrites are good for at least 25 years after the owner passes away,in Mr. Parker's case, that was 1990,so it will be 2015 before there is even a chance of clearing any possible copywrite. However, the parker family and the parker estate are the sole owners of the images,logos, tradmarks,and copywrites of Mr. Parker's crests,patterns,etc...
Members and studio owners of the International Kenpo Karate Association are allowed to use those images in exchange for being members of this organization. Mrs. Parker, as "President of the board of directors" of the IKKA, has endured numerous incidents of unscrupulous individuals who would rather steal an image than join an organization and wear it proudly. She has seen her husbands techniques that normally sold through IKKA manuals [one of her only sources of income,BTW] placed for free on the internet without her or the association's permission, her husbands crest used in a national advertisement campain selling videos of other individuals who no longer had any ties to mr parker, not to mention innumerous incidents where people who she had never met,let alone not being members of the association, make illegal copies of images her husband created.
She's had to persue legal action against many of the people because she simply wants to preserve her husbands work. So, with all due respect,Kirk, she doesn't know you from a hole in the wall and then you call out of the blue and as to use one of her husbands logos and you're not a an IKKA member or studio owner so obviously she's a little paranoid! Simply stated, her reaction may have come from the fact that she has had this done to her several times over the last 10 years + and she more than a little bitter about numerous incidents. If your conversation went exactly as you wrote it, then you really didn't properly introduce yourself to her and that may have started the ball rolling in the wrong direction. Please understand that this is her ONLY source of income and that she has been whittled away at so many incidents and people that she can be short and curt with people [myself included!!!] so you're not alone.
On the other hand, "The Bold look" out of Florida, presently offers universal pattern T shirts for order and or sale to studios and individuals. However, do not order anything with the Chinese calligraphy for kenpo karate, as they have it turned BACKWARDS!!!
I was recently interviewing a certain high ranking kenpo studio owner and the person gave me one of his shirts. I recognized the reversed writing of the calligraphy and bit my tongue...
ok, now i'll get off my soapbox...:soapbox:
I hope that I was of some service,
Joseph P. Rebelo II
KENPOJOE

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE

"The Bold look" out of Florida, presently offers universal pattern T shirts for order and or sale to studios and individuals.

Got a web address?

 

[GouRonin]

There is no worldwide copyright of the universal symbol. It may be copyrighted to a state but at last check it was not in the continent of the USA nor globally. Different laws affect different states and countries.

Copyright infringement only takes place when the holder of said copyright takes legal action. More often than not the holder will usually settle out of court for a percentage of the profits or a payment. The only person you can sue anyway is the producer should they have had knowledge of the infringement and failing that, the person attempting to make a profit. You can't sue someone wearing the shirt.

Also, during bankruptcy copyright laws change. Remember Ed Parker did declare bankruptcy.

The current copyright laws on the IKKA symbol and possibly the universal symbol are limited at best. You can also use any symbol as long as it is altered 20% from it's original. Unless the symbol becomes synonymous with the product or concept in whcih case it becomes free market.

Better check the extent of the copyright Joe. It's not copyrighted here in Canada.

 

[Roland]

Talked with Edmund Jr.
No copy right on the Pattern!

And yes, Bold Look does a lot of great stuff for Kenpo people.

:redeme:

 

[KENPOJOE]

Gou Ronin [Doug] wrote...

Originally posted by GouRonin

There is no worldwide copyright of the universal symbol. It may be copyrighted to a state but at last check it was not in the continent of the USA nor globally. Different laws affect different states and countries.

Copyright infringement only takes place when the holder of said copyright takes legal action. More often than not the holder will usually settle out of court for a percentage of the profits or a payment. The only person you can sue anyway is the producer should they have had knowledge of the infringement and failing that, the person attempting to make a profit. You can't sue someone wearing the shirt.

Also, during bankruptcy copyright laws change. Remember Ed Parker did declare bankruptcy.

The current copyright laws on the IKKA symbol and possibly the universal symbol are limited at best. You can also use any symbol as long as it is altered 20% from it's original. Unless the symbol becomes synonymous with the product or concept in whcih case it becomes free market.

Better check the extent of the copyright Joe. It's not copyrighted here in Canada.

In regards to the the copywrite issue, you can copywrite something on a national level in the case of the USA, although i'm certain you cannot do it on an international level. It also depends on what is actually being copywritten.
BTW, You can always do a "poor man's copywrite" which you send yourself a envelope with the ideas you created and mail it to yourself! The postmark will identify the the date of receipt so you can show WHEN approximately the idea was formulated!

in relation to the "suing someone selling the shirt", it's normally been people who have knowingly illegally used the images,names and copywritten material of Mr Parker who have either been sued or threatened with legal action.:hammer:

BTW, How do you know that Mr. Parker filed for bankruptcy? Also, was it chapter 7 or 11? They are distinctly different.

In regards to the "20% rule", I agree wholeheartedly! There have been some fine example of creative art based on Mr. Parker's original ideas yet uniquely original in their scope. Even my school patch is based on my kenpo instructor's original emblem as a legacy to him.
However, I don't agree that his images warrant his material being considered "free market" items.

Gee Doug, you mean Joe Foster never copywrote the IKKA crest in Canada?

:::getting off my soapbox::::soapbox:
BEGOOD,
KENPOJOE
Rebelo's Kenpo Karate
REBELOSKENPOKARATE.COM

 

[KENPOJOE]

Originally posted by Roland

Talked with Edmund Jr.
No copy right on the Pattern!

And yes, Bold Look does a lot of great stuff for Kenpo people.

Gee,Roland,
You actually bothered Edmund to ask him that? I'm sure he loved you for asking him about that one!

The creator of the Bold Look's child was a kenpo student under Greg Silva and started making uniforms...and the rest is history!

But I know i'd be pissed off if I found out that the kenpo embroidery on my Black Belt was on backwards,though!!!

BTW, I've mentioned about both the shirts and the belts to them and nothing has been done about it:goop:

I hope that I was of some service,
KENPOJOE

 

[RCastillo]

Ok Mr. Conatser, I want my Universal Pattern T shirt, pronto!
Make it Black, with the crest over the left side, extra large!:soapbox:

 

[Kirk]

Originally posted by RCastillo

Ok Mr. Conatser, I want my Universal Pattern T shirt, pronto!
Make it Black, with the crest over the left side, extra large!:soapbox:

I'm working on it! Gimme time!

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
In regards to the the copywrite issue, you can copywrite something on a national level in the case of the USA, although i'm certain you cannot do it on an international level. It also depends on what is actually being copywritten.

This is true. You can have a national copyright in a country. In some countries though someone who is not a national cannot hold copyright at all.

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
BTW, You can always do a "poor man's copywrite" which you send yourself a envelope with the ideas you created and mail it to yourself! The postmark will identify the the date of receipt so you can show WHEN approximately the idea was formulated!

Again this is somewhat true. I worked in an industry that depended on conceptual thought and intellectual property for a few years. This is not a copyright. What it does do is establish that you had some thought regarding the issue. Someone can come along and copyright an idea despite the fact that you did this anyway, even if you did it years before. It just gives you some leverage to contesting it.

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
in relation to the "suing someone selling the shirt", it's normally been people who have knowingly illegally used the images,names and copywritten material of Mr Parker who have either been sued or threatened with legal action.

Again this is true. However the legal action must be started and undertaken by the person holding the copyright which means they must be the one vigilant with it's use. More often than not an agreeable situation is found between the two parties without legal action.

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
BTW, How do you know that Mr. Parker filed for bankruptcy? Also, was it chapter 7 or 11? They are distinctly different.

Yes they are. And the laws regarding each have changed considerably since then. For example Florida is one of the homestead states where you can file and they can't take away your house or car if you file etc. These laws change all the time but sadly once you declare you are bound by the law at that time despite changes. However you can appeal. Also there is a difference between business and personal bankruptcy.

You can find out many things that are in the public domain much faster now with the internet. All it takes is knowing where to look.

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
In regards to the "20% rule", I agree wholeheartedly! There have been some fine example of creative art based on Mr. Parker's original ideas yet uniquely original in their scope. Even my school patch is based on my kenpo instructor's original emblem as a legacy to him.
However, I don't agree that his images warrant his material being considered "free market" items.

I agree. Anyone using something that is less than 20% altered should pay some sort of royalty to it's holder if they use it within the realm of their copyright domain. The IKKA material is from the IKKA. However you can't copyright motion.

Personally I think it's Ed Parker Sr.'s greatest legacy that his material lives on. Myself, I would like nothing better to see ONE governing body for Kenpo but it will never happen. Too many politics. The funny thing is that the people who really need/use Kenpo could care less about the politics.

Originally posted by KENPOJOE
Gee Doug, you mean Joe Foster never copywrote the IKKA crest in Canada?

Having never trained with Foster I don't know if he did or did not. More than likely, at the time he didn't want to piss the old man off and so he didn't. As the IKKA Canadian rep at the time he SHOULD have. But it took the IKKA close to 5+ years to even realize what he was doing and even then they had no clue he was changing the system and claiming Mr. Parker and he were in on it together until he was on charges and eventually convicted of sexual crimes. Kinda says to me that there was no one checking up on him. Ooops eh?

I know that it is not copyrighted here in Canada. I myself would do it IF I was the IKKA rep. But I am not and to do so would only be a money grab which I am not about.

I notice that the IKKA has taken agressive stances in recent history to start taking care of this copyright issue. In my personal opinion they have a somewhat healthy & viable product that could be merchandised to many if not ALL the present Kenpo organizations as it cross cuts politics. That could easily make the IKKA a VERY profitable organization and would allow them to increase revenue to expand their own program...

Just my own 2 cents though...

 

[Kirk]

Nevertheless, it's not copywrited, but some feel that by me
selling something with the Universal Symbol on it is unethical?

 

[GouRonin]

Not me. I think that if you used the Universal symbol it would be ok. It's more of an idea and ideas while they can be attributed to people are fair game. It's when they get more specific like the IKKA Crest represents that I would draw the line.

For example I have a few gi's with the IKKA crest although it's been years since I was a member. I wear it to say I studied Parker Kenpo.

Anyway, your call.

 

[Klondike93]

I agree with Gou (that's scarry )

Don't let Mrs Parker see you with them Gou, you'll be banished to hades by lawyers!! :rofl:

:asian:

 

[Blindside]

Actually Klondike it's worse than that, he'd be banished to Hades WITH lawyers.

Lamont

 

[GouRonin]

Lawyers have nothing on my ex-girlfriend.

As for the IKKA crest, I wear it but so do a lot of people. They get away with it because it's a knock off. 20% altered! I was a member of the IKKA at one point anyway.

 

[Klondike93]

I was a member once too.....

So you'd be in hades and your ex-girlfriend would be the ruler?


:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Klondike93
So you'd be in hades and your ex-girlfriend would be the ruler?

All I ask is 5 minutes in the "F" zone with her and I'd be more than happy to spend the rest of eternity in hell. And you can guess which one it is.

But I'm not bitter.

 

[Goldendragon7]

And as such are welcome to it. As for me. I am a Proud Member (1st Lifetime member at that!) of the IKKA, but Mr. Parker is Gone so we must move on. I wear the Crest on occasion and have a right to. I feel that it is keeping a legend active by wearing it. It is keeping Mr. Parker alive and well through his ART. NO one defends Mr. Parker as I do, or shall I say there are Many loyal followers of Ed Parkers System that feel as I do. We all continue to teach and share Mr. Parkers Art as if he were still here. Those close to me know that I would never do a disrespect to him. Personally I love seeing the Pattern and Crest as well as my own, I feel that they are all tributes to Ed Parker and we are moving on with his Art which now becomes MY ART and YOUR ART since he is no longer here.

I do not look to the IKKA for guidance simply because there are no seniors there that can promote me or have a knowledge base as I do. That's why I look to Steve LaBounty & Tom Kelly since they were in my lineage before I revert back now. I have no doubt that Mr. Parker is happy with the state of the art today. He is smiling and laughing at the same time. Most of us know who's who in the Kenpo Zoo. LOL

:asian:

ps but then some don't......... lol haa ahaaahahaaahaaaaaaaha:rofl:

 

[RCastillo]

Most of us know who's who in the Kenpo
Zoo. LOL



ps but then some don't......... lol haa ahaaahahaaahaaaaaaah

Mr. C. that better not be me you're talking about, i'll get on the first flight to Scottsdale, PRONTO!