Trapping.... Useless?

[LegLockGuy]

It seems that alot of the Muay Thai/BJJ guys I talk to think trapping is pointless and wont work in a real fight. But then the Wing Chun/JKD guys say it can work, it just depends. Well with ego's aside, does/can trapping work in a fight, and if yes, how so?

 

[Drac]

Well with ego's aside, does/can trapping work in a fight, and if yes, how so?

I've had suspects attempt to push me aside with one hand..I simply trapped the offending and against my chest and used a take down technique..

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I've had suspects attempt to push me aside with one hand..I simply trapped the offending and against my chest and used a take down technique..

I have done the same or similar several times when making an arrest as well. (back in the day)

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Context. Trapping works best during the build up to a conflict, prior to all full blown attack.
Since MT/BJJ tend to be sport based it won't work there too well because no one will utilise a technique that will be easily trapped.
Wheareas in self-defence/arrest situation prior to a full attack the suspect may try a move thats more easily trapped - eg the standard grab you by the lapel/shirt with one and hand smack you with other.

 

[Drac]

Context. Trapping works best during the build up to a conflict, prior to all full blown attack.
Since MT/BJJ tend to be sport based it won't work there too well because no one will utilise a technique that will be easily trapped.
Wheareas in self-defence/arrest situation prior to a full attack the suspect may try a move thats more easily trapped - eg the standard grab you by the lapel/shirt with one and hand smack you with other.

Yep..Especially if they think the fat grey haired cop can't do anything..LOL

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

Yep..Especially if they think the fat grey haired cop can't do anything..LOL

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm. Also though of another factor - clothes. Most trapping is easily done because a person goes to grip a piece of clothing, whereas in a ring fight they are usually lacking in grippable tops.
Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

 

[Drac]

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm. Also though of another factor - clothes. Most trapping is easily done because a person goes to grip a piece of clothing, whereas in a ring fight they are usually lacking in grippable tops.

Over here those thick "Baby Phat" jackets are great for that

Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

LOL:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm. Also though of another factor - clothes. Most trapping is easily done because a person goes to grip a piece of clothing, whereas in a ring fight they are usually lacking in grippable tops.
Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

:rofl: That was a picture I really did not need this early in the morning! :rofl:

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

:rofl: That was a picture I really did not need this early in the morning! :rofl:

I swear its not what it looks like. I do this in the name of science!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I swear its not what it looks like. I do this in the name of science!

Okay then, I understand completely! :erg: :rofl:

 

[bydand]

Thats always good for a laugh. Hmmm. Also though of another factor - clothes. Most trapping is easily done because a person goes to grip a piece of clothing, whereas in a ring fight they are usually lacking in grippable tops.
Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

I swear its not what it looks like. I do this in the name of science!

Note to self: Stay away from Shotgun Buddha's area for the next few years. :lfao:

 

[Yeti]

Hence my new policy for self-defence: I shall now when threatened, shed my clothes and fight with naught to fear but pneumonia.

Good Lord man! With that approach, you won't have to worry whether trapping works or doesn't...nobody would want a piece of "that naked crazy man"!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It seems that alot of the Muay Thai/BJJ guys I talk to think trapping is pointless and wont work in a real fight. But then the Wing Chun/JKD guys say it can work, it just depends. Well with ego's aside, does/can trapping work in a fight, and if yes, how so?

I think you need to look at it from the area you are approaching it from ie. Fighting! Trapping is definately going to be hard in cage match unless you consider an armbar a trap and lock. (which it is) Stand up trapping though when two opponents are striking is harder unless you hit the other person (and that causes a metnal stun) and then move in and begin to trap and control. However in the real world of self defense and violent encounters trapping works in its right place and time. (ie. clothing grab, mental stun from hit, precipitous grab/trap on your part that could be work related (law enforcement, secrurity, etc) and more) It is just one more option in your skill set that you should develop in case you need it.

Good thread!

 

[terryl965]

I swear its not what it looks like. I do this in the name of science!

Yea that is what they all say

 

[MJS]

It seems that alot of the Muay Thai/BJJ guys I talk to think trapping is pointless and wont work in a real fight. But then the Wing Chun/JKD guys say it can work, it just depends. Well with ego's aside, does/can trapping work in a fight, and if yes, how so?

People say that wrist locks/joint locks don't work either. However, I'm not going to throw something out because someone else says it can't/won't work. This could very well be because the people saying that, don't understand how to make it work.

The thing to keep in mind is that sometimes things will still work effectively, but you have to wait for just the right time to apply them. For example, take a joint lock. I wouldn't go in thinking, "Ok, I'm going to get his arm into a lock." but instead, "Ohhh...look, the arm is in a good position for me to apply this lock!" See the difference? Sometimes things need to be set up first. If during a grappling session, I want to get an armlock from the mount, if I were to go right for that arm, its going to be very obvious, where as if I tried something else first, as a distraction, I'm in essence, setting up that arm lock.

I hope this answered your questions.

Mike

 

[Shotgun Buddha]

People say that wrist locks/joint locks don't work either. However, I'm not going to throw something out because someone else says it can't/won't work. This could very well be because the people saying that, don't understand how to make it work.

The thing to keep in mind is that sometimes things will still work effectively, but you have to wait for just the right time to apply them. For example, take a joint lock. I wouldn't go in thinking, "Ok, I'm going to get his arm into a lock." but instead, "Ohhh...look, the arm is in a good position for me to apply this lock!" See the difference? Sometimes things need to be set up first. If during a grappling session, I want to get an armlock from the mount, if I were to go right for that arm, its going to be very obvious, where as if I tried something else first, as a distraction, I'm in essence, setting up that arm lock.

I hope this answered your questions.

Mike

You never go looking for a technique, you try to secure a good position and use what ever technqiues will work from there. A principle which applies to all ranges and forms of combat.
I like to think of trapping and joint locking as a layer of training that you add onto your base delivery system.
For example, I know that on their own I could never properly utilise the locking techniques from my Aikido class.
However by combining those techniques with my grappling delivery system of Judo/BJJ I can apply them as easily as any submission from those systems.
Same goes for trapping, its something I add on to the base.
I think the reason that some people object to these techniques is that some places train them as the base, and so attempt to use them without a solid foundation.

 

[tellner]

ShotgunBuddha, weren't you the one sayin' you were only trying to help that sheep over the fence?

 

[MJS]

You never go looking for a technique, you try to secure a good position and use what ever technqiues will work from there.

Agreed. Thats what I was saying in my post. Take advantage of whats presented to you at the time. Using one move as a set to another is also an option. As for the locks, same thing.

Mike

 

[tradrockrat]

I think your question has been answered by the people best suited to answer honestly here in this thread - people who put themselves in harms way without the goal being points or killing, but real control and self defense. Traps have their place and they work well in that place.

 

[ares]

In my class, if someone takes a knife and puts the point of it at your throat, then a trap would work to control that hand while you do something else to get out of the threat. Done correctly, the attacker would be in real bad shape when it's all said and done. I've seen people trap limbs and not even realize that they were doing it. Ares