training with smaller women

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by fighterman, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. fighterman

    fighterman Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    hi guys thought Id leave you some of these vids of one of my female students half my size. shes enthusiastic and really wants to beat stronger people. appreciate your views









     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2014
  2. WTchap

    WTchap Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2011
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Hi Fighterman,

    Generally speaking, I like the drills and like the fact she is willing to put herself under a little pressure and pain (I just know her arms/wrists were sore after some of the drills). :)

    You probably do it already, but I like to see female students working hard to issue good, heavy punches. This is one of the most important things for a female student, in my opinion, who is learning for self defense: the ability to really hurt someone with the punches they throw.

    For this reason, I am not too keen on seeing drills that feature takedowns. You have to be very, very good to (at half your opponent's weight) deal with a heavy attack and resistance and break their balance in order to control them to takedown... where you don't get dragged to floor with them.

    Against a resisting opponent, it is easy for physical strength to play a large role, and this already puts a woman (in most cases) at a disadvantage.

    But I like the fact you put her through her paces. :)
     
  3. jedtx88

    jedtx88 Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Try and only pair her up with people who will attack and defend to the best of their abilities. No matter the size difference.
     
  4. fighterman

    fighterman Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    thanks for ther tips. ive got plenty of vids where we wear head gear so i might put some of those in the future
     
  5. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    3,080
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Matsudo , Japan
    I don't know much about the W.T. method only what people on here have told me and I've seen a few clips.

    I watched the first few vids and there are a couple of things that I might do slightly different.

    I would get rid of that first elbow she does and change that to a side slash (fak sau) to the neck , the reason being because if her elbow gets parried she can be controlled from there and pushed right off balance.

    The side slash is less risky and any attempt at parrying or pushing the elbow can be easily countered by converting to Tan Sau.
    The second elbow is ok or alternatively you could get rid of that too , and go from Fak Sau to the neck then with the same arm she can latch your shoulder down and knee strike you in the groin, then she can use the second elbow to finish you off by striking down on the back of your neck.

    With the take down instead of her putting her arm around your neck , you could try having her drive her fingers up into the eye sockets in conjunction with the shoulder spin that you were doing.

    It will have the same effect but less effort involved just make sure she pushes her fingers up into the eye sockets to get the head to go back and then once the head is back she must press down with her hand and this will cause the take down as the head is taken out of alignment with the spine.

    But good on her for having a go and training with a big brute like you. :)
     
  6. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Australia
    I Approve, Mook Jong Man, but for different Reasons :)
    I am not speaking as a CMA Practitioner of course, but Overall.

    And other than that, I like the fact that Shes Training with People bigger than Her.
    I believe that if You are always against someone better and stronger in Training, someone smaller and less skilled is nothing.
     
  7. mook jong man

    mook jong man Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 28, 2008
    Messages:
    3,080
    Likes Received:
    261
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Matsudo , Japan

    I'm glad you approve.

    I mentioned balance because any one who does chi sau knows that once that upper arm past the elbow joint is controlled then you are in a world of trouble as it can be used to turn you to the side where you are easily destabilised and opened up to strikes.

    The range of motion is ok , power can still be generated from there , but it definitely helps if your already trained in the Biu Tze form so you can utilise the upper body rotation.

    Generally speaking when you latch a man down from the shoulder and pull him into a knee strike to the groin he will fold at the hips and end up in a semi crouched position.
    From there you pivot and rotate the elbow from the shoulder bringing the elbow strike crashing down on the back of his neck/ side of the upper jaw , you don't need any more targets that is a finishing technique.

    It's not really a Wing Chun technique , at least not of my lineage.
    We used to do it in knife defence techniques in another system I did quite a while ago.
    But as far as takedowns go it is pretty fast and easy and doesn't require any strength , the fact his eyes might get damaged is just a bonus.
    Don't forget where the head goes the body follows.
     
  8. fighterman

    fighterman Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    great tips, thanks guys....
     
  9. KamonGuy2

    KamonGuy2 Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,884
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London, United Kingdom
    Being a big guy, I know what works for small guys (as a lot of my training partners are smaller than me). Try and get your student to work on putting her body behind the hit. Drills are good just for getting the technique right, but its no good drilling in techniques where she is reaching to hit (in the first video the elbow is too far away).

    It is good to see that you are teaching her elbows as opposed to far away punches (if she is up against a big guy, she needs to get in close where her strikes will have more weight).

    My general advice would be to get her hitting pads with her elbow strikes. Slow it down so that she can feel the body mechanics. There are a lot of 'arts' out there where women end up doing bad strikes and thinking they are the dogs b*llocks. Its important to make sure that she realises that takedowns and thousands of weak punches arent the way to go, and to continue drilling in things that will work

    Good luck dude
     
  10. fighterman

    fighterman Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    great Kamon thanks
     
  11. WingChunIan

    WingChunIan Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Only my opinion but personally I'd have her using her legs to drive her whole body more rather than upper body motions and would encourage her to focus on volume rather than one or two shots. I'd second the posts about using the eyes, chin or nose as levers to move the head but would also add that if she gets her hips square then the footwork from the opening of bui jee can be used to disrupt the balance rather than upper body motion which it appear to be in the vid (although vids can obviously be very deceiving). Only my thoughts, everyone has different ideas.
     
  12. Domino

    Domino Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    519
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Preston
    Enjoyed watching your videos and learnt something myself.
    I agree about training with someone bigger than you, doing that myself at the moment. She (your student) will be a beast.
    One thing I saw, trying to deliver those elbows to a man of your size she is leaning forward a bit, we have all done it. Just good to 'nip it in the bud' so to speak.
     
  13. onthechin

    onthechin Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I watched 3 of the videos and it all seemed to be rubbish. She will not be able to defend herself against any real attack. Sorry but to bring reality back into the equation...all she's doing is throwing a half arsed attempt at an elbow in each, against an opponent who's not trying to attack her. Dare I say it another example of giving the gentler sex false confidence? She'd be better off running.
     
  14. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Australia
    Killing Your Partners tends to leave You without much capability with which to Train. That said, She should be putting more effort into it.
     
  15. onthechin

    onthechin Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Fair enough, when you spar with a guy who you hold as a friend it's a little hard to put too much aggression into it..that being said, they're equally amicable when it comes to the accidental punch in the nose. I just think those videos are basically what you don't want to see in WC. No footwork, no follow through, no anything...she's not learning how to fight she's simply doing a drill over and over..
     
  16. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    6,493
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Rubbish? Hey Onthechin, lighten up a bit! I don't recall anything in the OP about this being some kind of Reality-Based Self-Defense training. It's just an exaample of a smallish woman enthusiastically training against a large and powerful training partner. Even in standard drills, there is value in getting used to training hard against a large, strong partner without getting intimidated. Sparring and hard core self-defense drills could come later. Regardless, I think she shows good spirit.
     
  17. TaiChiTJ

    TaiChiTJ Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Geezer is right. It's clear she's new at this and just getting her bearings. If he's a half way decent teacher, and it certainly appears that he is, she will show more confidence and ability and knowledge in 4-6 months. Good stuff.
     
  18. wushuguy

    wushuguy Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    NYC
    Onthechin, Other people's training methods might look different than yours, and also don't know their background. She looks obviously like a beginner, but she's got the right start. It's important for her to train against stronger people, and that her teacher is larger and stronger, will give her the advantage as he has control over his strength and use it appropriately as she progresses.

    Fighterman, thanks for sharing the vids. It's always great to see other's ideas and ways of thinking. I also teach petite women, but the methods we use are different, I suppose because my body size is smaller, and my sifu was short, so I had used different techniques against my larger sihing and other opponents.

    I show them what worked for me and why it works against larger opponents, then after they have trained a few months, I bring in some of my larger private-students for them to try the self-defense principles against an unknown person, albeit in a controlled environment. It's intimidating and pressure testing. But I found that works for me, because of my smaller stature, i'm not intimidating on my own and i don't intend to be. :)

    I look forward to seeing other videos you post.
     
  19. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,827
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Australia
    Im inclined to think Onthechin is right, even if he is a bit enthusiastic about it. Its a repetition drill, which is more for confidence than application.
     
  20. WingChunIan

    WingChunIan Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    209
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    18
    this is the problem with vids. To be able to comment 100% accurately you need to know the background etc otherwise observations are just based on snap shots. If this student practises this drill over time (and i've already made observations on the clip previously) and works to improve her timing and distance along with her power, then when she comes to pressure test it, there is a higher chance of it working rather than all falling apart and leading to a loss of confidence.123
     

Share This Page