Training in Japan

Discussion in 'Koryu Corner' started by Dean X, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    They are gruesome!

    I've been watching the Olympic Judo from beginning to end and many of the Judoka's from different countries go to Japan to train but it seems the Japanese training methods differ a lot from other countries. (Neil Adams Olympic Judoka is the commentator here and has a wealth of knowledge). They rely on repeating techniques over and over doing lots of drills while other countries do a lot of sparring and fitness work, to me it looks like going to Japan is beneficial but should be a supplement to your training rather than all of it.
     
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  2. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Yes, but they need to be tempered with reality.

    Which has no place in this conversation. Don't get me wrong, I have quite an appreciation for them myself, but they're irrelevant in this conversation.

    No, they're not. Not if you've even been partially honest in your postings here.

    Honestly, I don't think you are even close to aware of what the "spirituality stuff" is about or like. And, if you have genuine deep issues, seek therapy. Not martial arts.

    Depends on what you're training. For Judo, yep, agreed completely. Other systems… Japan is more essential.
     
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  3. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    I already tried therapy. They told me to seek spirituality and inner peace. Plus, I've always had an affinity for mind-body development, breathing exercises and meditation (I learned how to meditate in a Neurology Lab by the way haha).

    I've gotten everything out of therapy that I can; I have to find my own path now.

    Not sure what you mean by "my feet aren't on the ground if I've been honest in my postings."

    ...That is your opinion. I respectfully disagree.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Sounds like a pretty poor excuse for a therapist, honestly… and, as far as what I meant, that's simple. All your posts show a lack of grounding in reality.
     
  5. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    so far though the Japanese haven't been doing too well, two more days to go though.
     
  6. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    Therapists don't really do much except urge you to talk about whatever's bothering you. You end up helping yourself; you do the hard work, not the therapist. My conclusion was that I need to step away from my obsession with vengeance and focus on cultivating inner peace, and not letting people like you get under my skin. Not all my posts show a lack of grounding in reality. Not everyone is saying that. I bounced some ideas around, found out what I was missing, and got pointed in the right direction; all the while putting up with your whining, disrespectful insults and hostile insinuations (with the occasional bits of useful information). Basically it just feels like you're harassing me. If you want to help teach me, you should choose a different approach or just plain ignore me and let me sink or swim on my own.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  7. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    You do realise that most people who seemed supportive thought you were joking, and were trying to go along with that, yeah?
     
  8. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    Yeah; that was hurtful and disappointing.
     
  9. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    I understand… and honestly, I wish they hadn't taken that approach. But it should highlight to you the way many of your ideas are seen by many here… I get that it's not a great feeling, but ideally, you can then re-assess your perceptions.
     
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  10. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    ...I don't think it's my perceptions that need to be reassessed...at least in terms of my ideals regarding freedom, independence, and self-reliance. I understand though that my perceptions on how the mechanics of certain things fit together aren't always correct though; technically speaking I pretty much only have a Second Grader's education; I taught myself everything else. My folks pulled me out of public school at the start of third grade to homeschool me instead. Dad was busy with the company though and mom was always sick and aching though so I didn't really get around to doing much actual schooling. They put me back into public school at the start of middle-school, but my social skills were severely lacking at the time and I ended up being promptly expelled for punching a kid in the face, got locked up and in lock up there wasn't really much of a school to talk about and you had to work up to get the privledge of attending school with the other kids; they had a long, complicated level system. I pretty much just isolated mself as much as I could during those years and so....yeah, I can kinda seem like a naive, inexperienced, uneducated alien lifeform sometimes.
     
  11. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    See, this I can understand. Thank you for sharing honestly with us here.

    I will say, though, that many of your perceptions of what is realistic and possible is something that should be looked at… at the very least, be ready to listen to people telling you how things actually are. There's a lot of experience here in many, many fields that I hope can help you, if you can allow it.
     
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  12. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    ...I guess what I don't understand is why it seems that the consensus is that one needs modernized/pre-forged tools in order to obtain and forge metals...it doesn't make sense to me; if mining with modern/non-primitive equipment is the only way, then how did primitive people make their own first metals? o_O

    It's kinda like the age-old adage of what came first; the chicken or the egg? XD

    Confusing.
     
  13. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Okay, cool… that's a question that can be tackled. It's a bit off topic for this thread, though (really, most of the last page has been… but we'll let that go for now), so it might be worthwhile putting it in your metal/wilderness thread itself. But, for your information here, what you need to do is research not only pre-ancient technologies and societies, but the gradual development of tools themselves… which will take you through a range of factors that will show that, really, by yourself, starting from scratch, it's not really possible.
     
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  14. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    Coolness; I'll look into it. Might have some old Geology or Earth Science textbooks buried around here somewhere from my lackadaisical homeschooling days. And got some mineral flashcard/quiz thingies. Supposedly I used to be really into science and greek mythology as a little kid; I don't really remember much of anything before I was twelve though, just have the stories and old photographs/scrapbooks. Been able to piece together some of the memories. Parents left my room just the way it was; that's kinda helped....feels kinda surreal living in a little kid's room though. Want to master self-hypnosis to gain access to my repressed memories and throw open the floodgates of my subconscious mind.
     
  15. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Grandmaster

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    Get some books on archaeology and anthropology, topics that cover ancient civilizations and how they developed over time through several long stages of technological development, Stone Age to Bronze Age to Iron Age to modernity. These eras were much much longer that a lifespan, as humans figured out gradually how to use and further develop these technologies, which in turn made it possible to reach the next level. But it took many many many generations, thousands of years, for humanity to build up this ability.

    You can take classes to help you develop some of these old technologies that are no longer used. You can learn flint knapping, and how to make a bow and arrow using simple hand tools, for example. Classes can be available, as well as books that can guide you in a self-study. You can take classes in bronze casting and black smithing and blade smithing and wood working as well, so you can learn these skills, but it will be with modern technology in most cases. Again, you can learn simple and ancient techniques like sand casting for bronze and silver. There are still people who do this and can teach it. You need to understand that how one works iron and steel is fundamentally different from how one works copper and bronze and silver and gold. In your lifetime it is absolutely unrealistic to think you can wander off into the wilderness and figure this out for yourself, especially if you think you are going to mine and smelt the raw metal from the ground with simple stone tools. That will never happen.

    Read about the composition of Earth, it has a crust some hundreds of miles thick, then a mantle that is molten or semi-molten that is thousands of miles thick, then a solid core of iron. You cannot possibly mine through that. No humans, with the highest technology, have ever penetrated the crust and reached the mantle. And if they did, the heat would be so high as to melt everything and kill everyone who went down there.

    Books are your friend. Read many of them, there is a lot of information to be had.

    I second Chris's thanks for sharing some personal details, it does give me perspective on where you are coming from. It sounds to me like you do not need a therapist so much as you need a psychiatrist who can prescribe meds as well as give other therapies. Those are tough issues, thank you for sharing, and all the best to you in working on them.
     
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  16. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't know what sort of therapy you went to -- but if that's all they said, it was the wrong type. If, on the other hand, that's all you took from it... well, that problem can be found in the mirror, no?

    Based on your comments, I would strongly encourage you to look harder for an appropriate therapeutic relationship to deal wit those problems. They're way more than I'm qualified to address, especially over the web. Therapy is a relationship; you need to be with the right therapist for you -- and you both need to be able and willing to say it's not right. It may take time to even decide if it's the right relationship, let alone make progress. I wish you luck and success in your quest for wholeness. (By the way -- in any good therapy, YOU will do the work. Think of it like working with a personal trainer; they can't do the reps or lift the weights and make you stronger, can they?)

    Once you get yourself somewhat in order -- pursue your dreams. Otherwise, you're building castles in the clouds.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
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  17. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    I have been bringing over foreigners for many years to live in Japan and train in judo, kendo, iaido and my own school. All have dan grades before they come. The main observation of judoka is total lack of hip speed to generate a throw. They have lot of catching up to do. For example if they train at a high school it's with shodan/nidan with already 8 years of solid training behind them.

    I have spent most of my life training Japanese to national standard "In Japan". Winning the all Japan team championships twice and individuals many times.

    Training from six every morning. Afternoons from 4:30 to 7:00/7:30 with a few short water breaks. Then all day Saturday and Sunday from competition training and competition.

    My own training included standing to fight with many of 55 students, Also police dojo practice and our own private teachers club. of 6th dan+ to do at least ten practices a week.

    This is the way they do it in Japan. There are no short cuts. Lots of natural fighting ability channeled in the right direction using "chosen students' that have excelled since they were old enough to practice.
     
  18. Zumorito

    Zumorito Green Belt

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    Yep; I considered it for a while recently, but concluded that I just don't have the money. I've been in therapy long enough though to know how to manage my issues. I am getting myself in order....I haven't really talked about what my former plans were to "get myself in order", but trust me, this is a lot healthier hahaha. XD

    On step at a time.
     
  19. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    So you are saying that foreigners are basically rubbish and they have to come to Japan to train? I passed on the observations of an 8th Dan Olympic medal winning Judoka, contact him if you think he's wrong. if you have Judoka in the Olympics please do tell me who they are so I can watch them.
     
  20. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Did I say that? Read my post again Your words not mine.

    Yes Japan works on repetition for improvement. That's what they do. Next time you buy Japanese product will wonder why the quality is better?

    In any case you will never see Japan as outright winners in Judo. They just dont and never will cover the weight class. I dont do judo. I used to place foreign students in the judo dojo.

    Budo training 'has' changed in Japan. It's nowhere near as brutal as it used to be. When new entrants used to join each year at least four of them would be out and on the floor every day sometimes carried to hospital with hyperventilation. Also at inter club competition practice. I have seen some teachers get brutal with students. This is of course totally unnecessary. Competition dojos do repetition and drills for warm ups for an hour. Most of the time the accent is on fighting skills. If you lived in Japan for many years you would know this.

    I am surprised you even suggest that repetition is bad. In Japanese Budo fundamentals are the key.

    My students dont go in the Olympics but they do represent Japan's elite every year.

     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016

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