Traditional v modern

[Steve]

Systema is tough to discuss because there are so many systema guys looking really suspicious. Do you think you could show us what you would consider solid systema?

 

[JowGaWolf]

There are some on youtube where he slows the process down, if you cannot find them by searching his name, check out systemas the channel of all systema .

How much slower do you want him to go. He still does not do in sparring what he showcases to the public is seminars.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

For another, learning to spot differences and notice small details can also sharpen one's skills for noticing other things, such as openings in a defense during sparring.

From what I understand of how the brain processes information, there's likely little overlap in processes between paying attention to a uniform, and spotting a pattern in movement/stillness that presents an opening in a fight.

I think there are benefits to learning to pay attention to details, and they vary by context. In the military, knowing everyone is meticulous about things like caring for weapons and completing common preparations makes it safer to assume work has been done properly - which saves time (and probably lives) when things get hot.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Have we agreed on what we all mean by traditional and modern?

No. As always, that turns out to be a vague distinction, and I suspect most of us are using at least slightly different definitions.

 

[drop bear]

How much slower do you want him to go. He still does not do in sparring what he showcases to the public is seminars.


This stuff

Doesn't look like this stuff

Plus some questionable training practices such as allowing a student to hold a pad against their leg as shown in this video

Yeah. Constantly sparring at a pace and level above the guys you are sparring is a duche move.

 

[Gweilo]

I though you wanted to discuss the relative merits of systema v tmas ?

Again your words not mine, I am willing to discuss the merits of Systema, but should we not do that in the appropriate forum section?

 

[Gweilo]

Systema is tough to discuss because there are so many systema guys looking really suspicious. Do you think you could show us what you would consider solid systema?

If you tell me how to paste a link in I will put on some clips of our training sessions, to see it in the real is difficult, there are no competions, and as some of you have commented it can look fake, but as I mentioned earlier watching the videos usually does not help.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If you tell me how to paste a link in I will put on some clips of our training sessions, to see it in the real is difficult, there are no competions, and as some of you have commented it can look fake, but as I mentioned earlier watching the videos usually does not help.

Videos need to be hosted someplace. YouTube is the most common. Copy the link, click on the "Media" button at the top of the post (the one that looks like old fashioned film) and paste in the link.
The links cannot be to a commercial site or monetized YouTube video.

 

[Gweilo]

No. As always, that turns out to be a vague distinction, and I suspect most of us are using at least slightly different definitions.

For the record and Jobo, this is my distinction, there are very few TMA, most of the arts available are evolutions, adaptations, and modern versions of a military system created centuries ago.
For me a TMA would be an art that is identical to its creation, in training methods and phillosphies but would need to be at least 2 centuries old, to me any art that has been born from another art in traditions or philosophies, or techniques is NOT a TMA, I am using the definition from the English Oxford dictionaries version of traditional . So to be clear (Jobo), Aikido and Hapkido cannot be traditional because they were born from Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu so to me are modern arts, albeit the word traditional is some time used in front of an art to distinguish it from other styles, like in Hapkido, the word traditional is used to separate it from adaptations like combat Hapkido.

 

[Gweilo]

I put this video up first, it is a training class, it deals with the Systema principles of movement.

 

[Gweilo]

Here is another training video, the principles of movement watch it all before commenting

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah. Constantly sparring at a pace and level above the guys you are sparring is a duche move.

Especially if that person is supposed to be teaching the student how to use the techniques.

I put this video up first, it is a training class, it deals with the Systema principles of movement.

New Title: MOVE INTO A KO. How to guarantee you'll be knocked out.
If someone punches you in the back of your head or in your blind spot, then your reaction is not yours to control. This is especially true if you are hit while completely relaxed. We have seen this over and over again with the Knock Out Game in the U.S. where people are KOed with one punch because they never saw it coming. I understand the concept of hitting while relaxed and this isn't it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here is another training video, the principles of movement watch it all before commenting

The self defense child in me is screaming at this video. Principles of movement become invalid if you are stabbed to death. In one part of the video the guy stabs him in the spine in the other the guy stabs him in the inner thigh.

The only way you can fight "relaxed" like that video, is if you redirect your opponent's strike 100% of the time. If you get the redirect wrong then your attacker is going plow right through your relaxed guard.

I would take Systema from someone who speaks like this. All of what he is talking can be found in other martial arts systems. What he says is not the same as what those guys were doing in your other videos.

 

[Gweilo]

And your opinion on this one, excuse the music

 

[Dirty Dog]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

Remember up there when I said links could not be to monetized YouTube videos? That wasn't a joke. Do not continue posting links to commercial sites or monetized YouTube videos.

Thank you.
Mark A Cochran
@Dirty Dog
MartialTalk Senior Moderator

 

[CB Jones]

I just don't understand the no tension aspect.

Punches look like they are just arm punches with no snap or power.

 

[Gweilo]

There Is more to It , but by having no tension you make the strike heavy, combined with speed, and how deep you strike, similar to the old fashion weapon the flail (handle with a chain and a spike ball), also similar to a spinning back fist, but the closed fist is heavy and not tense. I cannot put anymore videos as they are monetized, but google ballistic punching.

 

[jobo]

I put this video up first, it is a training class, it deals with the Systema principles of movement.

yes , thanks for posting, what he is showing us fast fluid movement which is a good thing, and I can see that whipping your relaxed arm at some one at speed can generated good energy, just from the acceleration and dead weight, I'm less convinced that this is more effective than powering a tense s/ rigid arm into your attacker and transferring body weight in to the punch. so it not with out merit if that's the situation you find your self in, just I'm not sure it would be my first choice

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I just don't understand the no tension aspect.

Punches look like they are just arm punches with no snap or power.

I think they have to be. Without dynamic tension, they can’t link to the body.

 

[Steve]

From what I understand of how the brain processes information, there's likely little overlap in processes between paying attention to a uniform, and spotting a pattern in movement/stillness that presents an opening in a fight.

I think there are benefits to learning to pay attention to details, and they vary by context. In the military, knowing everyone is meticulous about things like caring for weapons and completing common preparations makes it safer to assume work has been done properly - which saves time (and probably lives) when things get hot.

The Air Force loves checklists.

If you tell me how to paste a link in I will put on some clips of our training sessions, to see it in the real is difficult, there are no competions, and as some of you have commented it can look fake, but as I mentioned earlier watching the videos usually does not help.

Click on the video button in the posting window, and paste the url in between. It's pretty straightforward.