Towards a Minimum Hapkido Standard

[glad2bhere]

Dear Folks:

I apologize in advance, but frankly I have been having a lot of trouble cross-referencing various themes in the two mega-strings. I Thought I would tease out a single thought and give an example here, off to one side, for those who might be interested.

You will recall that on one of the Strings we had a series of Basic or Introductory Kicking Techniques. Each of five groups had their own take on the role of kicking in Hapkido and their own catalog or curriculum of introductory kicking techniques.

In hand with this someone else pointed up that people have different ideas of what Hapkido is such that not everyone gets taught the same thing and there are recorded cases of people putting together material from various sources and simply applying the label "hapkido".

I think we can identify a simple set of basic skills that a person need have from cross-referencing the material of existing systems and identifying commonalities. I have published a result of using this approach on the kicking techniques from the five lists. According to my findings, a person who reports having acquired a 1st BB in the Hapkido arts would be expected to be proficient in the following kicking techniques.



1.Scoop Kick

2.Side Kick

3.Inside Swivel Kick

4.Outside Swivel Kick (“Circle Kick”)

5.Heel Hook Kick

6.Heel Thrust Kick

7.High Point Hick (High Toe Kick)

8.Axe Kick

9.Slap Kick

10. Back Kick

11.Knee Strike

Let me say that these would represent the absolute MINIMUM kicking skills but represent the result of the sort of identification process I had in mind. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

Dear Folks:

I have correlated the striking techniques of Dojunim Kim, Kwang Sik Myung, He Young Kimm, In Hyuk Suh and Joo Bang Lee. I can only report that things were a bit more problematic. Apparently all of these folks agree that using the hands is important, but there is less concensus on how that is to be done. Allow me to explain.

The following are the techniques that either everybody agrees on or four out of the five agree on.

1.)Hammerfist Strike
2.)Ridgehand Strike
3.)Backfist Strike
4.)Knifehand Strike
5.)Spearhand Strike
6.) Palm Heel Strike
7.) Five Finger Strike

Now everybody agrees that there needs to be a Forward Strike of some sort. Candidates for this position include:

a.)Forward Punch
b.) Single Knuckle Punch
c.) Middle Knuckle Punch
d.) Four Knuckle Punch (Bear Claw)

Now everybody agrees that there needs to be a Backhand Strike of some sort. Candidates for this position include:

a.) Simple Backhand
b.) Simple Backfist
c.) Wrist strike

In addition, everybody agrees that there needs to be a rising strike but again cannot agree on the biomechanics. Candidates in this category are.

a.) Rising Punch
b.) Rising 4-knuckle strike
c.) Rising Spearhand


Lastly, everybody agrees that the elbow is an excellent weapon to use, but once again can’t agree how. Candidates for this category in order of popularity are:

a.) Forward Elbow Strike
b.) Rising Elbow Strike
c.) Downwards Elbow Strike
d.) Sidewards Elbow Strike
e.) Rearward Elbow Strike.

If anyone were to ask me my personal opinion I would opt that a person representing themselves as a 1st BB would be facile in ALL 22 hand techniques listed. I don't think that minimum is too much to ask.

Thoughts? Comments? Remarks that need to be made?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[glad2bhere]

If you all think I'm gonna pull over because no one is responding, guess again!

Here are some things to consider on this theme while you are sitting in the bathroom.

1.) YMK Hapkido uses Dan Jon (Dynamic or Diaphramatic) Breathing.
Should this be part of the minimal standards for a 1st Dan BB in Hapkido? If so, we have FIVE different executions. What would the BB need to know? Would they be expecvted to know ANY breathing material?

2.) We talked about breakfalls. I see knowing Back, Side, Front and Rolling. Anyone?

3.) The worst will be identifying the minimal standards for grappling. I have 10 candidates from the WHF Kebonsu plus a few others but still plan on correlating the five sources I am using right now. Anyone have other thoughts?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[SmellyMonkey]

Looks good to me. I don't know if I've learned all of the kicks and strikes, but I'd say the vast majority look good.

I'd like to see some essay or oral questions that you would pose to the students. Like, "explain the water theory", etc. Also, have the students pick a few techniques and explain them, as they would explain the technique to a white belt.

Jeremy

 

[ajs1976]

If someone has a minute. Could you give me descriptions of kicks 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9.

thanks

 

[glad2bhere]

Here goes. Quick and simple (and kicking with the back leg):

3.Inside Swivel Kick: Snap the leg forward as though executing a front snap kick at the partners knee. Just before making contact, snap the foot 90 degree to the side with the toes pointing in that direction. Contact is made with the lead edge of the heel to the knee cap. Motion is not unlike that of the Low Toe Kick.

4.Outside Swivel Kick: Rear leg scribes a large arc from the outside the area between the partners to Inside --- and through that area. Contact to the knee is made with the lead edge of the heel but again some people use the toe and yet others use the side of the foot.

5.Heel Hook Kick: Using the heel of the foot hook behind the partners knee or into the side of the thigh.

6.Heel Thrust Kick: Same as front snap kick except that impact is made by thrusting the heel into the target.

7.High Point Hick (High Toe Kick) Essentially a Front Snap Kick done with the toes tightly bunched.

9.Slap Kick : Essentially an Outside Cresent Kick making contact with the top of the foot in a brief arc rather than the side of the foot in a large arc. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[ajs1976]

thanks

 

[glad2bhere]

Rather than move on and try to single out this kind of blocking or that kind of falling I think its better to identify the most fundamental techniques that a 1st Dan in Hapkido would know. I think it follows that an authntic practitioner would knew a pretty wide variety of these throws in application bu to the best of my ability these techniques and their variations are characteristic in all of the sources I am citing.

1.) Arm Bar----- "knifehand to elbow"

2.) Wrist Throw--- "Turning Leaf"/Kote gashi

3.) Wrist Lock

4.) Four Directions Throw

5.) Verticle Wrist Lock/Forward Wrist Throw

6.) Single Leg Sweep

7.) Hammerlock

8.) Elbow-wrist Throw/ Figure-four techniques

9.) Hip Throw

10.) Shoulder Throw

In addition I think that four pins are also universal to all of the resources.

1.) Forward Elbow Pin

2.) Rearward Elbow Pin

3.) Outer Wrist Pin

4.) Hammerlock Pin

Once again the key to this material is "minimal" meaning that anyone who presents himself as a 1st dan in Hapkido could reasonably be expected to know these techniques, being able to apply and receive their execution. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

I think this list is more than reasonable,Bruce. I am sure you have bumped up against BB's who have only known half this stuff,as have I.

Just one comment...."Shiho Nage" Jap. lit. "Four Corner Throw" As I am sure you already knew that... Where's that one thread again?......

 

[glad2bhere]

OK. I consider what follows to be the single toughest part of setting an absolute minimum standard for Hapkido practice. This also has a helluva lot to do with what started this project in the first place. I will say one more time that what I am speaking of are minimum standards of performance for a person who states they are a 1st dan BB in Hapkido.

Here are what I consider Nae Bup-- or Falling Techniques that a 1st Dan ought to be able to perform.

1.) Back Fall

2.) Side Fall

3.) Forward Roll

4.) Forward Fall.

I have not mentioned sit-outs, safety falls or air rolls as these tend to be more specific to certain groups. I have also not specified a surface of any particular type. I have also not mentioned "free-falls" such as backwards off a chair or tumbling over a series of people or obstacles.
Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[SmellyMonkey]

I think flip-falls (air rolls? I'm thinking about the fall you need to safely be hip-thrown) have to be included.

 

[glad2bhere]

I agree.

When someone executes a hip throw or shoulder throw you are actually doing a side breakfall albeit from a greater height. An air roll is essentially an acrobatic you might do in mid-air to relieve a sharp twist or torque on a wrist, elbow or shoulder joint. I put air-rolls in the same category as forward and backward flips. They are neat if you can do them but the art itself can be practiced safely without them just the same. Hope this helps.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[American HKD]

Bruce,

I think this idea has alot of merit.

1. How will it ever happen?
2. Who decides how many and what techniques?
3. Governing body needed to rank the people with these minimun skills?

A couple years back KIHAP headed up by Ed Annibale tried to do such a thing and I thought it was a good idea but politics and such blew it all apart in a year and everyone envolved was burnt out from trying.

Talking is great but who could actually make it work?

 

[ajs1976]

Right now, I think this listing is for discussion purposes. It is easier for two people to compare the difference in their respective styles of Hapkido, if they already have a basic understanding of what is common to all styles of Hapkido.

 

[glad2bhere]

".....A couple years back KIHAP headed up by Ed Annibale tried to do such a thing and I thought it was a good idea but politics and such blew it all apart in a year and everyone envolved was burnt out from trying.

Talking is great but who could actually make it work?...."

The short answer is "we would".

The thing that has undone Hapkido practitioners over and over again is the matter of "who is going to be in charge." Read that as "who gets the bragging rights", or "who gets the revenues" or "who get to tell other people what to do". Has not worked yet. Everybody agrees that its not GOING to work. OK. So maybe we get a clue, right? What if NOBODY is "in charge"? What if a standard is just put out there in the public domain for general use (kind of like that Internet Browser that everyone is always pitching-in on). Nobody is bound or required to use the standard.

But,

what if a person says that they teach Hapkido and people don't know what hapkido is?

or

what if a person says they hold a particular rank in Hapkido and want to apply for a position with an organization.

or

what if a person presents to participate in a Hapkido event stating that they are capable of participating without needless risk of injury to himself or his partner. A standard is out there to be used should someone care to. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Paul B]

I think you hit it when you said "a standard is out there to be used should someone care to."

People that will care about a standard probably don't need it,no? I'll venture that anyone who doesn't care about a standard on their own,probably is teaching/learning the type of Hapkido we don't want to be associated with.

How do you explain the notion that "we would"? On the short term? By policing ourselves?(not that I'm in a position to do this)

 

[American HKD]

".....A couple years back KIHAP headed up by Ed Annibale tried to do such a thing and I thought it was a good idea but politics and such blew it all apart in a year and everyone envolved was burnt out from trying.

Talking is great but who could actually make it work?...."

The short answer is "we would".

The thing that has undone Hapkido practitioners over and over again is the matter of "who is going to be in charge." Read that as "who gets the bragging rights", or "who gets the revenues" or "who get to tell other people what to do". Has not worked yet. Everybody agrees that its not GOING to work. OK. So maybe we get a clue, right? What if NOBODY is "in charge"? What if a standard is just put out there in the public domain for general use (kind of like that Internet Browser that everyone is always pitching-in on). Nobody is bound or required to use the standard.

But,
what if a person says that they teach Hapkido and people don't know what hapkido is?

or

what if a person says they hold a particular rank in Hapkido and want to apply for a position with an organization.

or

what if a person presents to participate in a Hapkido event stating that they are capable of participating without needless risk of injury to himself or his partner. A standard is out there to be used should someone care to. Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce,

I think the HKD world could benefit from such a standard, but if no one really follows it in thier schools and gets rank by it and no association honors the outline it's only academic.

The idea of KIHAP was a standard that would cross the boundries of associations. Once accepted and endorsed by any governing body that body would in fact accept the others ranking without exception.

It was a very lofty undertaking and at the time I was really into it.
HIKAP didn't have the right people or leadership so it fell apart.

If people like Hal, Rudy, JR, and a maybe a few other westerners got behind it and said whoever meets these standards will qualify for rank from any of us any time that would be real unity and we'd have something worth while going for.

I also think Hapkido could become more popular with a unified core rather than such wide devisions as we now have.

Get the leaders together and there you have it.

 

[glad2bhere]

The problem is when it continues to come back to "who" is going to regulate, be in control or tell people what to do. I guess I am not understand why anyone has to "be in charge". I find it interesting that despite the fact that the process has already begun, the point that continually gets raised is "who is going to give us permission to do this." Am I to understand that you will do something good for the Hapkido arts just as soon as someone tells you its OK? Am I to understand that you can share an opinion about the authenticity of a rank or the integrity of an art, but should it come down to simply agreeing that a person of "X" level of competence would reasonably be expected to know and do "Y" well you balk? Guess I am not sure what your motives are for not participating in even a hypotheical process. Do you, yourself, not see something odd about this?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[American HKD]

The problem is when it continues to come back to "who" is going to regulate, be in control or tell people what to do. I guess I am not understand why anyone has to "be in charge". I find it interesting that despite the fact that the process has already begun, the point that continually gets raised is "who is going to give us permission to do this." Am I to understand that you will do something good for the Hapkido arts just as soon as someone tells you its OK? Am I to understand that you can share an opinion about the authenticity of a rank or the integrity of an art, but should it come down to simply agreeing that a person of "X" level of competence would reasonably be expected to know and do "Y" well you balk? Guess I am not sure what your motives are for not participating in even a hypotheical process. Do you, yourself, not see something odd about this?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Bruce,

You and I give our authority to this project Ok.

We each have our own students and we give our own rank no WHF or KHF whatever you accept mine and I yours. We don't care who likes it or not.

Is that good enough for you to resign from the WHF right now and completly follow your own ideas?

Appoint yourself Doju or I'll appoint you Doju and we'll go from there.

That's real everything else is pure B-ll Sh-t!

Are you man enough?

Are you ready?

Only answer YES or NO without qualifications

 

[glad2bhere]

Bruce,

You and I give our authority to this project Ok.

We each have our own students and we give our own rank no WHF or KHF whatever you accept mine and I yours. We don't care who likes it or not.

Is that good enough for you to resign from the WHF right now and completly follow your own ideas?

Appoint yourself Doju or I'll appoint you Doju and we'll go from there.

That's real everything else is pure B-ll Sh-t!

Are you man enough?

Are you ready?

Only answer YES or NO without qualifications

Lets take your thoughts point by point.

Who the heck is talking about givng rank or leaving our respective organizations?

Who is talking about giving rank?

And why do I have to call everything else BS?

And what does any of this have to do with being a "man" or being "ready".

What is it that you think is going on here?

Best Wishes,

Bruce