Discussion in 'The Competitive Edge' started by _Simon_, Apr 8, 2018.
You posted your video while I was posting...
Nice kata. I like Pinan 4.
Fantastic! The comradery is one of the greatest things about a good tourney. I saw good balance on the form. If the sparring match allowed punching to the face I think I would be more concerned with the three eye punches. One of the easiest defensed for a lead leg kick is to simply step in before the kick can get extended. Great job.
Enjoyed the video and pics.
I think I know that guy in the white coat in the photos I thought he retired years ago
Thanks heaps guys
Yeah me too, feels so nice performing it.. now the question is whether to stick with that one for the state titles or change hmmm...
Cheers, will definitely keep that in mind. Or seeing his telegraph and coming in over the top quickly with a punch, or just getting a faster kick in hehe . I think maybe my moving around his kicks wasn't fast enough, and I didn't have the time counter straight away.
Yeah it did allow face punches (noncontact), just one of those things unfortunately hehe.
Ah really? The Go-Kan-Ryu jacket dude? I'm blanking on his name... but yeah he's a judge at these tournaments and also competes in the veterans division, I see him every year. He did an awesome Kanku-Sho, I was rather impressed as that kata requires alot of agility and a few acrobatics moves in there!
That's pretty cool, how do you know him?
Cool. My son has started running a version of Kanku Dai as his tournament kata.
He really likes it
Which kata do you know?
My tournament kata back in the day was Saiha. I won several tournaments with that one. I would’ve done it again 2 years ago at our annual Seido tournament, but it was a few belts above my rank at the time. Our tournament’s rule is we have to do a kata within our current rank. Only exception is if the student recently promoted, then he/she is allowed a kata from the previous rank. ie when I competed 2 years ago, I was in the 4th kyu division. Acceptable kata were Gekisai Dai (which I did), Pinan 4, and Seido 3. There were 3 guys who did Pinan 3 in our division. The judges didn’t ask when they promoted, but it was obvious because their belts were still all shiny and creased (when you see that sharp bend in the tail of one side). I’m probably going to compete in October in our annual tournament. If I’m still a 2nd kyu, I’ll do Pinan 5. If I’m promoted in the time being (possibly right around the tournament assuming no setbacks), I’ll do Saiha. But enough about my tournament ...
If Pinan 4 is your strongest kata, stick with it. If so, I’ll be glad to give you a few pointers. I worked on Pinan 4 and Gekisai Dai a lot for my last tournament. I honestly decided to do Gekisai Dai when I walked up and bowed in front of the judges. I wasn’t feeling my side kicks that day.
If you’re bored with Pinan 4 and have enough time to learn a new kata well enough to compete with it, then go that route.
Hey @Dirty Dog, do you do the first move open hand or closed hand like the video? We have always done it closed hand, palm down on the outside block first, turning it palm up for the upper-cut. Just curious how you did it.
I think you're confused again...
I don't do the pinan forms at all. I do kicho, palgwae, taegeuk, chang hon and yudanja forms.
Ahhh that's awesome, Kanku Dai is definitely one of my favourite katas...
-Taikyoku katas and Taikyoku Sokugi katas (obviously won't perform those in a tourney hehe. Also know in ura but that would confuse the judges I'm sure XD)
-Pinan 1-5 (still brushing up on 5)
-currently attempting to learn Kururunfa
Ah that's awesome, yeah I love Saiha . I know a different version of it than the Kyokushin one but I'm very comfortable with it.
And nah I love hearing about your tournaments! Feel free to let us know how you go if you compete in October, wouldn't mind at all if you posted in this thread
Ah that's interesting about the rules and what katas to perform. I think in this one we're supposed to perform around our level, but are welcome to perform higher if we have the ability to. But I was puzzled about the fellow who won with Kururunfa, it's usually a much much higher kata than 1st Kyu...
Ah cool, thanks heaps appreciate the offer very much, and will for sure take you up on it if I go with Pinan Yon. Yeah I'm very comfortable with it, but yeah still on the fence whether to try something else... I think something that's well rounded and not so static is a good option... a kata that's dynamic and displays athleticism, balance, solid stances and transitions, technique, understanding of movements, power, good hard/soft, breathing... I love some other katas like Yantsu, but don't know whether it's too stationary or not.
It's hard to know what they're looking for! But I'll look over the rules anyway. I did Seiunchin at the state titles last year, but I was the only one in my division hehe.
The next one is in 12 weeks so we shall see!
Ah cool, I know in Pinan Ni (2) it starts similar, but with closed hands instead, and palm down on the higher up arm
From your list, I don’t know Bassai, Empi, and Kururunfa.
From what you say you’re looking to do, I’d say Pinan 5 checks a lot of those boxes. And it’s not an out of place for a kyu kata. There’s stance changes, a good flow/timing change with hard and fast vs slow movements, and athleticism with the jump and a few direction changes. I honestly think it shows off more abilities and skills than the others. Yes, Seiunchin is more difficult and longer, but I think Pinan 5 is more dimensional from a tournament standpoint. But if you’ve got a solid kiba dachi and easily into it, out of it, and within it, Seiunchin could be it.
If I was competing soon and could do any kata, it would be a toss up between Pinan 5, Saiha, and Seiunchin. Saiha just always felt right to me. We have tournament prep classes for a while leading up to them. I was going to compete in last year’s tournament, but some family stuff came up last minute so I had to back out. Both years when we were doing different kata to warm up and I guess get into the right mindset, I did Saiha. Everyone told me it’s the perfect kata for me and I should do it in the tournament. I just smiled every time and reminded them I couldn’t due to rank. I got “well at least you know which one you’re doing for 1st kyu.” Yup.
I plan on competing in October, and I plan on being 2nd kyu. I’m not seriously refining Pinan 5 right now, but I’m definitely paying extra attention to it when I do it. When we’re asked to pick a kata during class, it’s always Pinan 5.
It was really neat to watch your Pinan 4. When I studied Shutokan, we did Pinan 1-5* as well, but they were different. Pinan 4 was called Pinan Yondan and, while similar to your kata, it was also different.
* we also did Nafatchi 1-2 & Basai. I don’t remember the name of the kata after Basai because I never finished learning it before leaving for college
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You are right sir. I stand corrected. Another senior moment.
Yep, I even had the wrong Pyong An form in mind.
Awesome, that's very insightful feedback, thanks mate. I'll run through Pinan Go a few times and see how it feels, but you're absolutely right, it would be a great one to perform in a tournament.
Seiunchin I practiced like crazy, and I even did Shiko dachi instead of Kiba dachi and got my legs relatively comfortable in the stance and moving out of it and around in it. Still a difficult one to perform, endurance-wise hehe! And the thing is, EEEEEVERYONE does Seiunchin at this tournament haha, seriously it's performed so very often... and as much as I love it, I don't know if it's worth doing if alot of others are. Although the judges are impartial and have to judge the kata solely on that and not on what others did.
Ah that's awesome, yeah there are so many differences I've noticed. I've seen those first few open hand moves done really slowly in some katas. And ah cool, yeah also called Heian Yon in other circles.
And was it Naihanchi kata that you did? I recently learned that too briefly, love that one...
Hmm. Our school spelled it “Naifanchi.” There were two “ich” & “ni.”
In my kata list earlier I forgot to include Sanchin & Wankan Ich (presumably there are more Wankan ones but I only ever got up to 1st Dan so I’m not certain).
Ahhh. This Kata discussion really makes me miss karate and my old school. Taekwondo is fun but it there’s nothing like your first love.
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Ah cool! Ah I definitely recommend still practicing your other forms at home Michele, obviously there may be technique differences between karate and TKD, but it's so much fun working on your other stuff, great to keep that fire going there. I'm gonna be trying a TKD dojang out soon when they start back up, so it shall be interesting!
Our Naihanchi poomse are in a straight line all in a horse stance. There are three of them.
Your original school was Okinawan, right? Okinawan pronunciation is NaiFanchi, whereas Japanese is NaiHanchi (capitalized the H and F solely to make the visually stand out). Same as SaiFa (Okinawan) and SaiHa (Japanese), Bassai (Japanese) and Passai (Okinawan), and several others. From what I understand, Okinawa has a different dialect than mainland Japan.
The you get into ichi, ni, san, etc. vs shodan, nidan, sandan, etc., ie Pinan ichi vs Pinan shodan, Heian ichi vs Heian shodan, etc. In actuality they’re the same kata, just different pronunciations and numbering systems. Yes they have variation from school to school too, but for all intents and purposes they’re the same kata.
To muddy the waters even further, you have Funakoshi (Shotokan founder) who outright changed the names of kata to Japanese names to gain Japanese acceptance of them - Kusanku/Kushanku/another variation (allegedly a person’s name) to Kanku (to view the sky); Naihanchi/Naifanchi (person’s name) to Tekki (horse riding), etc.
And people wonder why it’s so hard to document the history of this stuff 123
Separate names with a comma.