TMA Stances compared with snapshots from MMA

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by skribs, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Trophy Points:
    263
    You are spot on with that post. It gets tiring lol. When things get tiring I just become really blunt and I blame my wife for that lol. I fear my by the time I hit 60 or 70's it's just going to be straight from the brain to the mouth with no filter lol
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Git off my lawn you kids!!!

    :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,525
    Likes Received:
    578
    Trophy Points:
    248
    I agree with the above points. My background is karate, and the Okinawans viewed protection of their body to include longevity and being pain free as part of "self-defense" and it wasn't just all about fighting. I think that is one of the things that MMA misses the mark on. For most, the focus is just on the fighting and doing whatever it takes to win in the cage and they aren't concerned about the long term effects and damage that they are doing to their bodies.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No you don't.

    I have a whole treatise here in front of me discussing a proper kung fu diet, literally entitled Shíwù de néngliàng xué (The Energetics of Food).

    And I'm willing to share the wisdom within, and how it translates to static stancework.

    Unless of course, you know everything already.
     
  5. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Maybe your kung fu herbology and diet education is just sorely lacking. It's not that uncommon for people to learn a little and then talk big. I prefer to learn a lot, and then keep it concise.

    Word to the wise: don't take yourself so seriously, it's counterproductive to the learning process.

    Do you even know how many of the Five Tastes the wǔ wèi zi contains? Are you willing to be taught, or like Jow Ga, is your cup already full?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    And if that's not enough of my big fat ego (it's so so big), here's a medical source that ties antioxidant activity of deoxyschizandrin drawn from that very famous Manchurian kung fu berry to joint health. Something I learned from kung fu, not medical school.

    But of course, you already knew this, because your egos are all so, so small.

    Deoxyschizandrin, Isolated from Schisandra Berries, Induces Cell Cycle Arrest in Ovarian Cancer Cells and Inhibits the Protumoural Activation of Tumour-Associated Macrophages - PubMed
     
  7. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,597
    Likes Received:
    2,317
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    So share it. Preferably in a new thread where it's relevant. Don't continue begging people to ask for it, when it's not something they're interested in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2012
    Messages:
    7,597
    Likes Received:
    2,317
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    New York
    @JowGaWolf I have the DSM-5 in front of me. A whole book on mental disorders. I'm willing to share how it relates to stance work and chinese cooking. Unless you already know everything.

    But you have to ask. If you don't you're letting your ego get the best of you and lreventing me from sharing my amazing knowledge.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I almost forgot, I am such a big ego fatty, I went ahead and spent the time to hunt down those sources about Tai Chi and arthritis for you. When you actually compare studies you'll find that most of the benefits from Tai Chi for arthritis are mental, not physical or anatomical.

    That's because Tai Chi lowers stress and distracts the mind from nerve pain.

    Tai Chi for people with rheumatoid arthritis
    Tai chi for rheumatoid arthritis: systematic review - Database of Abstracts of Reviews of Effects (DARE): Quality-assessed Reviews - NCBI Bookshelf
     
  10. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    And by the way, since we're talking about stances, joint health, and the martial arts. MMA and TMA have a common enemy: sugar.

    Oreos are more addictive than heroin and cocaine, and sugar and alcohol are both anathema to a proper kung fu diet. In fact, eliminating both is mentioned right here in the Shíwù de néngliàng xué! That's because Chinese kung fu masters (and their big egos) knew that fighting a lot while on high sucrose diets led to joint annihilation thousands of years ago and this knowledge has been advanced by kung fu sifus for centuries, along with other TCM theories.

    Now, I won't say I buy all TCM theories, but the ones about sugar and alcohol turn out to align with modern medicine. Sugar is poison to a kung fu student. Alcohol before or after training is even worse, but many do it, not realizing the damage they're doing to their joints, livers, kidneys, and heart.

    For proof outside of kung fu, just look at wrestling. Wrestling and sugar are also anathema, and this is also a time honored, well known dietary advice in wrestling circles. Boxing, wrestling, MMA, and physical therapy coaches all advise avoiding sugar intake during training.

    But one look at many kung fu students will prove that they didn't get this memo.

    Wrestlers Looking for an Edge? It isn’t Sugar! – True Wrestling
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  11. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    They should be interested in their joint health, and how it relates to their diet, especially in a thread about stances. There are things you should eat to promote healthy stancework, and things you should avoid like the plague. The original video discussion was about "why stances", but that's superficial. There is a more in depth anatomical and dietary discussion we should have. If people don't want to discuss it, it doesn't hurt to make them aware.

    The TMA/MMA stancework debate ties into diet strongly. It really doesn't matter what style we're talking about, but diet is at the top of the list when it comes to repetitive stancework in any martial art, whether static or dynamic.

    There is a huge amount of kung fu training devoted to dietary needs for training, herbs, liniment recipes, and a lot of it is intended to protect the joints and organs from damage due to extensive stancework and footwork. This is because training stances and footwork without dietary considerations leads to long term injury, and this is common knowledge among quality kung fu sifus.

    I'm really surprised people who claim to be kung fu pros online, especially the ones posting videos, are not familiar with this stuff. I've found this a lot, they know bits and pieces but are missing a lot of the underbelly. So, I offer it freely.

    I don't consider myself an expert at all, so how is it I have this stuff and others don't. I'm just lucky I guess.
     
  12. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ginseng root, also great for promoting healthy, inflammation free stancework and avoiding repetitive stress injuries from footwork. Something Asian arts have known for a while, and Western arts are catching up on.

    This is why ren shen chá (ginseng root tea) has long been a staple kung fu recipe (half to 3 grams dosage, no more unless you are treating hypotension).

    Of the 50 odd fundamental herbs in Chinese herbology, wild ginseng is prized almost above all others, especially in TMA circles. For that reason, it is the most harvested plant in North America (a fact nobody I've ever met seems to know other than my kung fu sifus).

    I'll leave it at that. I think the usual "MMA vs TMA" videos discussions get dry and boring, so I spiced things up a bit, pun intended.

    If anybody is really interested in exploring the Energetics of Food more, I'll make a separate thread. If not, then at least a few people learned something new to pass on, like I am.
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Trophy Points:
    263
    lol.. I'm trying my best not to be super blunt about Kung fu, Diet, and stance work. I'm literally sitting here right now trying to think about something I will probably never be interested in. Like how to knit or how to make dresses. Then I give myself 2 options. That or Kung Fu Diet and Stance training. So far I've been willing to do everything else but read about Kung Fu Diet and Stance training.

    Just to give you an example. I thought. Between making gift item out of cow manure and reading Kung Fu Diet and Stancework. Which would be more excited. So I picked the Manure. I couldn't find any gift items, so I did a search on Polished Manure. which led me to 2 things Merdacotta and Japanese Hikaru Dorodango. Which then led me to Cow Dung Floors

    Merdacotta looks like this. But it's made of manure. Yum.
    upload_2020-7-20_16-50-3.jpeg

    Japanese Hikaru Dorodango looks like this. Now I want to go polish some dirt.
    [​IMG]


    Which was interesting because he didn't refer to it as Cow Manure, I calls it Cow S... lol.

    So back to the reason I'm telling you this. I'm spent the last 20 minutes looking at things made from cow manure and dirt. Shared with you, and feel like it was still a good use of my time. Not once did it come to mind that I want to learn about Kung Fu Diet and how it relates to stance work. So at this point I know that my interest in dirt and cow manure floors is higher than my desire to know about Kung Fu Diet and Stancework.

     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2020
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Watch out, snark on the internet!

    is Tai Chi weakening my knees??

    For real Jow Ga, if you don't drink Ginseng tea already, you should start or all that footwork you are doing in your videos will take a nasty toll on your body, especially if your wife's cooking is heavy on the umami (and I don't think pills or tablets work nearly as well but that's just my preference).

    Truth is I'm just looking out for you. You'll find I am friendly, generous, and forthcoming when it comes to sharing kung fu "secrets" like herbal tea recipes. These have been passed down for countless generations because of their therapeutic effects, and kung fu masters treasure them accordingly. Jow Ga the style being the mashup art that it is, you likely just missed out on this particular subset of CMA training.

    No problem though, we all have something new to learn at any given moment. I for one never knew you could make dinnerware from poo, but thanks to you, I have been enlightened.

    The Diet of the Shaolin Monks - Earthship Biotecture
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
  15. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I drink enough herbal tea to pee a pharmacy. My dad (who is obviously much older than me) took Ginsing for his joints. It didn't help and the cartilage is deteriorating. I used to have bad knees. An indian doctor discovered my knee joint pain was the result of a tendon twisted around the muscles in a funky way. He fix that for me for free, He used to take Tai Chi in the same school. I no longer have the issues that I used to have with my knees. My stances are stronger and eveything is back in alignment.

    My point is, While food and diet is important sometimes you just need to see the right doctor about joint issues. I did (very fortunate) my did didn't and tried to only fix it with ginseng. So I'm going to keep doing what I do. The choices I make in life, including the once that make no sense to others seem to always put me where I need to be, when I need to be.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    8,484
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    can you post a few herbal tea recipes? i love it when people enthuse about infusions

    do you have any with nettles, we have lots of nettles but no Ginseng
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2016
    Messages:
    4,765
    Likes Received:
    1,583
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Yeah....there is no way in hell I’d ever try any of that stuff....I’ve had decades of training and full contact fighting and my bodies just fine without any of that
     
  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2005
    Messages:
    12,973
    Likes Received:
    2,543
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sugar was common in the diet thousands of years ago?

    Everyone knows this. It is common knowledge. That’s why I only drink alcohol during training.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Ginseng in the US hasn't had a good reputation. It used to be the "in heath supplement." I'm cautious about health supplements since they can skirt around FDA regulations.
     
  20. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    2,649
    Trophy Points:
    263
    I'm assuming we are talking about refined sugar (the white sugar) and not natural sugar like honey. Sugar has been around for a long time but I'm not sure when refined sugar was invented. Most likely refined sugar was expensive so only certain people would actually have access to it.

    In terms of refined sugar, the question would be, did kung fu schools have access to sugar in the first place. If they didn't have access to it, then they wouldn't have used it anyway. Considering that most of the world was poor. I can imagine gardens and farms being a big thing. If someone was to put us in a shack in the woods with a bag of seeds, we probably wouldn't be to concern with refining sugar. It may be better to just find some honey bees and save the honey and spend the rest of the time making sure that the crops grew. Refine sugar seems to be something that one would do if they had a lot of time on their hands.123
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page