This is what is wrong with TKD

[exile]

Question for the majority of you. How old were you when you started martial arts and when did you get your first black belt. I started when I was 10 but I didn't get my BB until I was 17. This we due to moving and changing systems.

Started at 55, BB at 61. It didn't feel as long as six years ought to feel, but that's what the numbers say... :idunno:

 

[miguksaram]

Started at 55, BB at 61. It didn't feel as long as six years ought to feel, but that's what the numbers say... :idunno:

When I first read your reply I thought it said "...that's what the nurses say." ha.ha.ha.ha...

That is cool to see that you started later in life and kept with it.

 

[phatbway]

Nothing's wrong with "TKD" it's just the wrong people in it that is wrong

 

[phatbway]

well let's see........my son is 10, we've been studying together for the last 20 months, we both just earned our Purple belts together. are you saying that my son cannot be a BB within a reasonable..........let's say.........12 months? We don't miss classes just to let you know. are you saying he cannot achive his BB @ 11?

 

[rchurch]

There is a school near me that has a 3rd degree BB Instructor - and she's 10 years old! I wish I had the newspaper article about her so I could post it, but it talks about how they don't spar, they just do forms. We consider it more of a dance studio than a MA school.

 

[Twin Fist]

yes that is what i am saying

for one thing

BB takes a MINIMUM of 36-48 months of hard core training to even get CLOSE, and thats in a simple system like TKD, in a complex system like Aikido or Kenpo, it takes LONGER. (And you people relax, you know as well as I do that on the complexity scale of martial arts, TKD is on the low end.)

you have been training for 20 months, add 12 to that, thats only 32 months

you have got to be a superstar, and i mean like "get that guy an agent, he needs to be in movies" superstar to get BB level skills in just 32 months, and NO 10 year old is a superstar.

for another thing, BB is also a test a MATURITY, and no 10 year old is mature.

sorry, hate to break it to you, but BB is supposed to mean something

Now this isnt to say that he cant earn a Jr Black, if he has the proper skill level, but thats not the same thing as a 1st Dan Black Belt

If your school reguarly promotes people to black with LESS than3 years training, well, how to say this nicely?

I cant say it nicely.

well let's see........my son is 10, we've been studying together for the last 20 months, we both just earned our Purple belts together. are you saying that my son cannot be a BB within a reasonable..........let's say.........12 months? We don't miss classes just to let you know. are you saying he cannot achive his BB @ 11?

 

[exile]

When I first read your reply I thought it said "...that's what the nurses say." ha.ha.ha.ha...

It's actually what the orderlies say. No, but seriously...

That is cool to see that you started later in life and kept with it.

That's one of the few great things about doing something when you're, ahem, of a certain age. You wind up taking a long view of it because you've learned by that point that nothing good is going to come to you instantly, or even very soon; that the really good stuff only comes later. People who get into things too young tend I think to get frustrated easily when they find out that there are a lot of layers to the onion, and you're not really 'there' until you get to the innermost one....

There is a school near me that has a 3rd degree BB Instructor - and she's 10 years old! I wish I had the newspaper article about her so I could post it, but it talks about how they don't spar, they just do forms. We consider it more of a dance studio than a MA school.

I'm seeking my jaw at the moment... have you seen it? It's on the floor here somewhere... :jaw-dropping:

 

[terryl965]

Question for the majority of you. How old were you when you started martial arts and when did you get your first black belt. I started when I was 10 but I didn't get my BB until I was 17. This we due to moving and changing systems.

I started when I was about two, remember my father was an instructor, I recieved my first BB at the age of 17 in Okinawa Karate. It took me about 4 years to get a TKD BB and that was still with all my training. My instructor let me wear amy BB but was sure to tell everyone that I was this color inside his school. The only was I fought the BB level guys because was a BB you can never go and fight a beginning and I agree with that.

 

[BrandonLucas]

yes that is what i am saying

for one thing

BB takes a MINIMUM of 36-48 months of hard core training to even get CLOSE, and thats in a simple system like TKD, in a complex system like Aikido or Kenpo, it takes LONGER. (And you people relax, you know as well as I do that on the complexity scale of martial arts, TKD is on the low end.)

you have been training for 20 months, add 12 to that, thats only 32 months

you have got to be a superstar, and i mean like "get that guy an agent, he needs to be in movies" superstar to get BB level skills in just 32 months, and NO 10 year old is a superstar.

for another thing, BB is also a test a MATURITY, and no 10 year old is mature.

sorry, hate to break it to you, but BB is supposed to mean something

Now this isnt to say that he cant earn a Jr Black, if he has the proper skill level, but thats not the same thing as a 1st Dan Black Belt

If your school reguarly promotes people to black with LESS than3 years training, well, how to say this nicely?

I cant say it nicely.

Read and reread the parts that I have bolded in this quote.

Read it again.

This pretty much sums it up. I still don't think it's as much about the time spent working for the blackbelt rank, as it is about the amount of work that is put in for the blackbelt rank. This usually does take around 4 years for the average person with other things going on in their lives, and typically less long for students who are able to dedicate entire days at a time, multiple times a week. But the fact remains that alot, alot, alot of blood and sweat has to go into earning a blackbelt.

It would disturb me greatly to see a 10 or 11 year old bleeding and sweating that much to earn a rank.

That being said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a Jr. Blackbelt rank...it means that the student has worked very hard to earn a blackbelt for their maturity level. But a 1st dan requires more physical, mental, and emotional maturity than a child could possibly have.

It should not be about the rank. It should be about the training and ability of the student. It's just like anything else: if you train hard, the rank will come. If you train for the rank, you'll find yourself waiting longer than you hoped to wait.

 

[miguksaram]

People who get into things too young tend I think to get frustrated easily when they find out that there are a lot of layers to the onion, and you're not really 'there' until you get to the innermost one....

Now here is something that brings up another point. Out of all these young black belts, how many stay in the art past a year or two after receiving their BB? It has been my experience that many of them drop out not too long after they earn it.

I have spoken to co-workers of mine who have told me "Oh my kid did martial arts a couple of years ago. He got his black belt. Now he plays (place sport name here)"

Thoughts?

 

[kidswarrior]

It's actually what the orderlies say. No, but seriously...

At first reading, thought this said, that's what the ordinals say.

That's one of the few great things about doing something when you're, ahem, of a certain age.

Indeed.:yoda:

You wind up taking a long view of it because you've learned by that point that nothing good is going to come to you instantly, or even very soon; that the really good stuff only comes later. People who get into things too young tend I think to get frustrated easily when they find out that there are a lot of layers to the onion, and you're not really 'there' until you get to the innermost one....

Too true, my old friend...couldn't resist.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Now here is something that brings up another point. Out of all these young black belts, how many stay in the art past a year or two after receiving their BB? It has been my experience that many of them drop out not too long after they earn it.

I have spoken to co-workers of mine who have told me "Oh my kid did martial arts a couple of years ago. He got his black belt. Now he plays (place sport name here)"

Thoughts?

Depends on their reasons for attending class. If they're still in highschool and earned their blackbelt and quit, maybe it could have something to do with outside factors...college, etc. Or maybe they joined for the sport aspect of it, and once they achieved their goal of earning a blackbelt, decided it was time to move on to another goal.

Or, maybe they didn't want to attend martial arts class at all, and it was more of living up to their parent's expectations than it was a decision that they made themselves.

Whatever the reason, if someone actually sticks it out long enough to become blackbelt, then more power to them. Even with the ATA 2 year blackbelt standard, for alot of people, sticking with something for 2 years is a huge accomplishment in and of itself.

I don't think it matters so much as to the fact that they quit, but more of why the quit, and/or why they were involved to begin with.

 

[KELLYG]

Of all people receiving black belt young or old what is the attrition rate in your school?

 

[clfsean]

I was 12 when I started in TKD, and was 16 when I earned my 1st dan...and that was going to multiple classes a day, 4 times a week, over the course of 4 years.

Same here except I started at 11, completed the requirements for black at 15 & had to wait the extra year. Even then it wasn't on my 16th birthday. It was several months into it before I ever came up for it. This included all my forms daily, teaching duties, sparring, etc... during this time where nothing new was taught to me & nothing was offered to be taught. It was a "test" to see if I'd wait it out to meet the school req's. I was the first one that did in my school.

I have another question to pose to everyone:

If the issue that everyone is having is that blackbelts are being promoted too young, don't deserve their belts, etc...

What can be done, realistically, to preven this?

Nothing. Realistically, nothing at all.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

No Dan ranks under 15

so no, i dont think a 16 yr old should have a 3rd, or a 20 year old a 4th

TF, you really don't want the answer to this, but since the post is about what is wrong with TKD, I'm going to give it anyway. If you're a third poom at, say thirteen, when you're sixteen and it is time for the next testing (generally from 3rd degree it is three years, be it poom or dan), if you pass, guess what? You're fourth dan.

Also, if your fourth poom, when you turn sixteen, all the school owner has to do is fill out some paperwork and mail it to the KKW and guess what?

It's Morphin' time!!

Your fourth poom yells out "Dan-o-saurus!" and morphs into a fourth dan.

So actually, one could be fourth dan by sixteen. And if they have been fourth poom since they were thirteen (mathmatically possible if a child has a first poom at seven), then they can test for fifth dan at seventeen, which would technically make them a master.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

and that's a bunch of crap

poom ranks should start over at 1st Dan when they come of age.

Thats the way I do it.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

and that's a bunch of crap

poom ranks should start over at 1st Dan when they come of age.

Thats the way I do it.

Don't know if I'd make them start over completely, but I do feel that they need to take and pass an adult test in order to qualify their pooms to dans, and no closer together than a year between.

True, that still leads to a twenty year old fourth dan, but it beats the tar out of just converting their ranks which they achieved at kiddie tests.

Daniel

 

[Gizmo]

Also, if your fourth poom, when you turn sixteen, all the school owner has to do is fill out some paperwork and mail it to the KKW and guess what?

It's Morphin' time!!

Your fourth poom yells out "Dan-o-saurus!" and morphs into a fourth dan.

I believe the "conversion age" for 4th Poom is 18, not 15.

 

[BrandonLucas]

TF, you really don't want the answer to this, but since the post is about what is wrong with TKD, I'm going to give it anyway. If you're a third poom at, say thirteen, when you're sixteen and it is time for the next testing (generally from 3rd degree it is three years, be it poom or dan), if you pass, guess what? You're fourth dan.

Also, if your fourth poom, when you turn sixteen, all the school owner has to do is fill out some paperwork and mail it to the KKW and guess what?

It's Morphin' time!!

Your fourth poom yells out "Dan-o-saurus!" and morphs into a fourth dan.

So actually, one could be fourth dan by sixteen. And if they have been fourth poom since they were thirteen (mathmatically possible if a child has a first poom at seven), then they can test for fifth dan at seventeen, which would technically make them a master.

Daniel

I find it troubling that, no matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to morph.

Maybe I'm not saying the catch phrase right or something....

 

[igillman]

I find it troubling that, no matter how hard I try, I just can't seem to morph.

Maybe I'm not saying the catch phrase right or something....

Did you pay the $$$'s to morph?