This is Scary

[Archangel M]

Im with Cryo on this one. This sort of hero worship of a President is unseen..even compared to JFK and its scary. And Ill go one further..while I dont believe that there is evidence that Obama is intentionally cultivating this atmosphere for nefarious purposes, I do believe that he DID indeed cultivate it...if we dont believe that all the "Change" posters, "O" logos and "messiah" hysteria were intentional PR efforts to garner votes than we have our heads in the sand. Not that it makes him "evil"...it was obviously great strategy, but his campaign did have some direct correlation IMO.

And while Bush obviously did have abysmal approval ratings I think its important to note that Obama didnt win by a popular vote "landslide" there is still a large segment of American society that didnt vote for him. If he wants to be "inclusive" I think it is important for him to remember that.

I do have to give the man credit for one thing to date..I actually heard some Rebublican congressmen praising his efforts to be bipartisan with this stimulus package. Unfortunately Pelosi and the rest of congress is more concerned in taking advantage of their majority than they are in being bipartisan. Hearing a Rep. publicly praising a Dem. President was a hopeful sign so Ill remain openminded on HIM for now. The rest of the hill seems obviously "business as usual".

 

[Empty Hands]

What I didn't see was them singing "Bush Bush he's gonna save me". I didn't see them Pledging an oath to Him. I didn't see...

Then you weren't paying much attention in the right circles over the past 8 years. There has been plenty of talk about divinely appointed Bush carrying out God's work from the ultra-religious right. Plenty of prayer and adulation. Plenty of defending abhorrent actual behavior like torture which they would condemn from Obama or someone similar. The Republic managed to survive those idiots, and it will survive these idiots too. At least Obama shows no intention of serving up heaping platters of disregarding the law and ignoring our rights that his followers will be obliged to defend.

 

[Sukerkin]

I know that I'm on thin ice when I speak on this subject, after all I don't have to live 'under' the presidency like you chaps do. However, the decisions that the President of the USA makes do indirectly affect me because of America's current role as Biggest Kid In The Sandpit, so I hope that gives me a little right to hold forth an opinion on the topic.

What is it that the rest of the world is not seeing about Obama that is inspiring such virulent responses here?

I'm not asking for emotive responses about Brain-washed Hitler-Youth being created on American soil within days of his taking office or similar 'reasons'. Forgive me but those sort of things just do not wash, as the saying goes, when an intelligent, informed, discussion is to be had on a political matter. That's tabloid hyperbole of the standard I'd expect from the News of the World.

Your last president was one of the scariest leaders I've ever seen in my life and I am very happy that he (and the interests he fronted for) no longer have the direct reins of power. He's (as the Front Man he gets the blame) made such a mess that I reckon it'll take more than one term by a president with a less militaristic view to sort out the damage. Indeed, it may be too late and the path begun may have to be completed by another 'war leader' as that's the only place left to go to now.

So, given that that is my honest opinon, what is it about Obama that I'm missing that should make me 'fear' his legacy more than that of the Bush dynasty?

 

[Steve]

And while Bush obviously did have abysmal approval ratings I think its important to note that Obama didnt win by a popular vote "landslide" there is still a large segment of American society that didnt vote for him. If he wants to be "inclusive" I think it is important for him to remember that.

For what it's worth, Obama did pretty much win by landslide. If I remember correctly, he won ~365 electoral vote, and won the popular vote by over 9 million. And voter turnout was very high.[/quote]

 

[elder999]

Your last president was one of the scariest leaders I've ever seen in my life and I am very happy that he (and the interests he fronted for) no longer have the direct reins of power.

Well, that's one thing you're not seeing.The interests that he fronted for have just as direct a rein as they ever did. They'll just use a subtler approach with Obama in office, to make everyone on both sides think that there's some kind of huge difference.

 

[Sukerkin]

Well, yes, I agree with that and have said so on many occasions. There was an implicit nod in my sentence towards that connection still existing but at one step removed from public sight.

Please don't allow that small semantic reinterpretation of what I wrote to undermine the validity of my deeper question.

 

[jetboatdeath]

So, given that that is my honest opinon, what is it about Obama that I'm missing that should make me 'fear' his legacy more than that of the Bush dynasty?

For you nothing.. What I fear is losing the same rights you in England are now trying to get back... Like I said once they are gone....

 

[Cryozombie]

Then you weren't paying much attention in the right circles over the past 8 years. There has been plenty of talk about divinely appointed Bush carrying out God's work from the ultra-religious right. Plenty of prayer and adulation. Plenty of defending abhorrent actual behavior like torture which they would condemn from Obama or someone similar. The Republic managed to survive those idiots, and it will survive these idiots too. At least Obama shows no intention of serving up heaping platters of disregarding the law and ignoring our rights that his followers will be obliged to defend.

Bush bash bush bash bush bash. I get it, bush was a ****. But bashing 8 years of bush does not an answer to my question make. Show me the Videos of The American "B" logo. Show me the Celeb videos of them Kissing their Bicepts while reciting "I pledge alliengence to the Bush, on Nation Under Bush" show me the Kids singing "Bush is gonna save the world", show me the Video of Militant Youth in Fatigues marching to Bush Cadence... Yes, I heard that BUSH claimed he was put in office by the Divine right of Kings, and it was parroted by a few groups, but that does not the same Level of worship make. I get that you love the man, I get that you see great change because he's NOT Bush.

But, again, the ISSUE AT HAND IS NOT IF OBAMA IS A GOOD PRESIDENT, MUCH BETTER THAN BUSH.

The issue is that are People Blindly following him in God-like fashion. AGAIN, Its NOT ABOUT OBAMA. ITS ABOUT HIS WORSHIPPERS.

And FWIW if I may steal a tactic from several of the Liberal Posters here on this board when the discussion WAS about Bush and the Cons brought up Clintion:

"Bush was in the past. You cant talk about him anymore" Oh Snap.

 

[Cryozombie]

I'm not asking for emotive responses about Brain-washed Hitler-Youth being created on American soil within days of his taking office or similar 'reasons'. Forgive me but those sort of things just do not wash, as the saying goes, when an intelligent, informed, discussion is to be had on a political matter. That's tabloid hyperbole of the standard I'd expect from the News of the World.

But that is exactly what this thread was started about... if you watched the OP's Videos you could see that.

 

[shesulsa]

But again ... there have been worshippers of all kinds of evil. What's so different about this? Sorry, but I don't see this as much different from the Dittoheads. And they're adults.

Oh snap.

 

[jetboatdeath]

Thanks Zombie for trying to get it back on track...
It is the same old tatic, wow that is kind of weird and scary....
Quick lets change the subject....maybe they wont notice...

 

[Empty Hands]

The issue is that are People Blindly following him in God-like fashion. AGAIN, Its NOT ABOUT OBAMA. ITS ABOUT HIS WORSHIPPERS.

The only point is that this is not a new thing. As I said, if you know where to look, there was quite a lot of "worship" of Bush. Meanwhile, there is no reason to believe that the current excitement will turn into the next Holocaust.

"Bush was in the past. You cant talk about him anymore" Oh Snap.

It's a relevant comparison. Sorry you don't like it. You also brought it up.

 

[Sukerkin]

That sound you fail to hear (because on the Internet noone can hear you scream ) is my giving up trying to have a 'conversation of equals' on American politics (that's one where the inherent ideas matter, not the trumpeting of individual party-lines embraced with fervour which is so often mistaken for political discourse).

From now on I'll limit myself to Moderator duties only on such issues. Try to keep the shouting, name calling and deliberate-point-obfuscation down to a minimum if you don't mind.

Honestly, it's like the House of Commons at Prime Ministers Question Time in here .

 

[shesulsa]

That sound you fail to hear (because on the Internet noone can hear you scream ) is my giving up trying to have a 'conversation of equals' on American politics (that's one where the inherent ideas matter, not the trumpeting of individual party-lines embraced with fervour which is so often mistaken for political discourse).

From now on I'll limit myself to Moderator duties only on such issues. Try to keep the shouting, name calling and deliberate-point-obfuscation down to a minimum if you don't mind.

Honestly, it's like the House of Commons at Prime Ministers Question Time in here .

The thing is ... that it seems to be a screaming match - who can make the point best or who can scream the loudest about the opposing team breaking the rules when they're breaking the rules themselves.

The Democrats have been quiet and serene long enough, letting themselves be bullied, interrupted and belittled with sophomoric tactics by the right to the point where everyone was wondering if we were, indeed, seeing the end of Democracy in America.

Lo and behold, we have a hope. What else would "they" do but attack it with all their might? It's to be expected. Sadly so, nonetheless it's the distracting game the GOP has relied on for several decades now.

If non-GOPers stop talking, stop holding the right accountable for what they say, point out the inequities in concern for national policy and the Us Vs. Them debate, then we surely WILL see the end of Democracy in America.

Please don't stop interjecting with your views from across the Pond.

What you (and some of my fellow Americans) might not know is that our news is grossly censored. The so-called LIBRUL MEEDGIA is owned by conservative interests and will not divulge the truth of our national action to the American press. So the news our radio stations put out to the UK is wholly different than what we hear.

We NEED to hear it. We NEED to read it. If ever the world were a smaller place than now, we can't know the importance of how we appear to others, reasons behind policy towards the United States.

As much as I tire of the Emporer's New Clothes syndrome and the Emporer's New Evil syndrome ... we must not give up. Truth becomes lies only when silenced.

:asian:

 

[Ramirez]

Be carefull Obama is puting together that Civilian police force, that in no way could ever be compaired to the SS ....

What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?

Get a grip.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

In a hundred days, the honeymoon will be over, that "New President" smell turned to something akin to week old sweat socks, and the economy will be even more ****ed up, and another 100,000+ out of work, and another dozen+ companies will have gone **** up.

Lets see if the songs are still sung, the boys in the shirts still snappy in their step, and the kool aid still as sweet.

 

[Empty Hands]

What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?

*waves to Secret Service*

 

[jetboatdeath]

What do you suggest, we do like Tom Cruise in Valkyrie and assassinate him?

Get a grip.

Tom Cruise assassinated Obama in Valkyrie?

WOW sounds like you are the one who needs to "get a grip"

 

[Sukerkin]

That's enough of that, gentlemen, if you would be so kind. Let's not take any more steps down the road that can only lead to flames.

It would be better for the health of the thread if discourse could be conducted at a level of respect greater than that normally expected of the average school playground.

If you find it impossible to communicate with a given member in a respectful fashion, then feel free to use the Ignore function. If another member posts something that is directly addressing yourself in a negative fashion rather than discussing the 'issues', then please make use of the 'Report to Moderator' function.

These two simple steps will help make on-line life a good deal more pleasant for everyone.

Mark A. Beardmore
MT Moderator

 

[Archangel M]

For what it's worth, Obama did pretty much win by landslide. If I remember correctly, he won ~365 electoral vote, and won the popular vote by over 9 million. And voter turnout was very high.

[/quote]

Im only reffering to the popular vote. 66,882,230 to 58,343,671 may seem like a lot but its only a little more than the population of NYC and Long Island...one small corner of the nation. 58 million who didnt vote for you is far from a "landslide" as I see it.