KempoGuy06
Grandmaster
I got this in an email today and thought id share it with the good people here at MT. It makes you take a step back and think.
B
Inspirational Story
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It's great that she got what she prayed for. I wonder what she would have done if she hadn't.
Good for her for sticking to her beliefs. I'm glad it worked out happily for her.
Agree, SheSulsa. Plenty of good Christian women pray for easy deliveries and healthy babies and don't get them. They don't get an "inspirational" way out that lets writers of anonymous letters say "See! If you just hope and wish hard enough it will all turn out alright."
Some women are forced to make difficult choices. Their stories don't get passed around as feel-good messages.
Some women are forced to make difficult choices. Their stories don't get passed around as feel-good messages.
Shesulsa wrote
Tellner wrote:
Mothers and Fathers brothers and sisters (of all religions) often pray for things that seem to go unanswered. As a Christian it is usually realized that not all prayers are answered in ways that we can easily understand but all prayers are heard. Most Christians know that life is difficult and that we will be tested over and over. Asking for an easy life is not something worth asking for nor desired. You may not have read many as you put inspirational stories Tellner but I have, both from women and families that chose the abortion route and those that did not. I have also had the opportunity to meet some disabled children and adults as well as their families. Their stories are very inspirational to me and to others. There is a cost to both routes. With one there is a small financial cost and perhaps a huge emotional toll. So many relationships fail after abortions and the mother will have to live with the fact that she killed her baby even if at the time she considered it nothing more than a blob of flesh. With the other one you are out time and will have emotional and financial hardships. One route costs society even if it is easy and one route adds to society even if it is difficult.
I think that we can agree that many take the abortion route as a convenience; many use abortions to make their lives simpler or as a means of avoiding hardships caused by poor decision making. Now with medical testing available many have to come to the decision whether to continue a pregnancy or to terminate the life with-in that testes positive for Downss syndrome or some other disability. People judge those parents harshly (I think unfairly) for deciding to carry to term their baby even in the face of certain knowledge that their baby is deformed disabled or some other negative factor.
I can not speak for all or even for some but only for myself. I have met some children who are mentally disabled. They were warm and loving and always seemed to be smiling. You can ask them how they are doing and they answer I fine even from the hospital bed. I have friends and students who have different disabilities and all are living life and I doubt many or even any would wish that they had been aborted rather than facing life as they are. The parents I have talked with love their children and learn a great deal from them and almost to a one they would not switch their circumstances. The love that these children show to their parents and that the parents show to their children is truly awe inspiring.
I have learned that being disabled both physical and mental does not mean worthless despite our society saying differently. The disabled have a value and a gift. They do not want our sympathy or empathy but want a chance to live and to try.
We should be thankful for every easy (easy says the boy lol) birth and every healthy baby but we should also be careful about deeming those that do not meet the standards as worthless and throwaways. It leads to a cheapening of the value of life. I wonder for those that have no problem at all with aborting the disabled if they would have a problem aborting those babies that test as likely to be over weight, or those that have dark hair or those with brown eyes for those reasons alone? I fear that many would not and that soon society will say that not only is it OK but that it will become the norm.
Regards
Brian King
On a light note- I guess she may have then named her daughter Tim or perhaps Tammy or some such On a more serious note- I am guessing that she would have loved her son Tim even if he had been born disabled. What mother wouldnt?
Tellner wrote:
Mothers and Fathers brothers and sisters (of all religions) often pray for things that seem to go unanswered. As a Christian it is usually realized that not all prayers are answered in ways that we can easily understand but all prayers are heard. Most Christians know that life is difficult and that we will be tested over and over. Asking for an easy life is not something worth asking for nor desired. You may not have read many as you put inspirational stories Tellner but I have, both from women and families that chose the abortion route and those that did not. I have also had the opportunity to meet some disabled children and adults as well as their families. Their stories are very inspirational to me and to others. There is a cost to both routes. With one there is a small financial cost and perhaps a huge emotional toll. So many relationships fail after abortions and the mother will have to live with the fact that she killed her baby even if at the time she considered it nothing more than a blob of flesh. With the other one you are out time and will have emotional and financial hardships. One route costs society even if it is easy and one route adds to society even if it is difficult.
I think that we can agree that many take the abortion route as a convenience; many use abortions to make their lives simpler or as a means of avoiding hardships caused by poor decision making. Now with medical testing available many have to come to the decision whether to continue a pregnancy or to terminate the life with-in that testes positive for Downss syndrome or some other disability. People judge those parents harshly (I think unfairly) for deciding to carry to term their baby even in the face of certain knowledge that their baby is deformed disabled or some other negative factor.
I can not speak for all or even for some but only for myself. I have met some children who are mentally disabled. They were warm and loving and always seemed to be smiling. You can ask them how they are doing and they answer I fine even from the hospital bed. I have friends and students who have different disabilities and all are living life and I doubt many or even any would wish that they had been aborted rather than facing life as they are. The parents I have talked with love their children and learn a great deal from them and almost to a one they would not switch their circumstances. The love that these children show to their parents and that the parents show to their children is truly awe inspiring.
I have learned that being disabled both physical and mental does not mean worthless despite our society saying differently. The disabled have a value and a gift. They do not want our sympathy or empathy but want a chance to live and to try.
We should be thankful for every easy (easy says the boy lol) birth and every healthy baby but we should also be careful about deeming those that do not meet the standards as worthless and throwaways. It leads to a cheapening of the value of life. I wonder for those that have no problem at all with aborting the disabled if they would have a problem aborting those babies that test as likely to be over weight, or those that have dark hair or those with brown eyes for those reasons alone? I fear that many would not and that soon society will say that not only is it OK but that it will become the norm.
Regards
Brian King
RandomPhantom700
Master of Arts
This has gone from being a forum thread for discussion to a sermon from on high. Be advised all.
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We should also be thankful that we live in a society where women have the choice to have such a procedure in a legal, sanitary manner, whatever the "reasons," and pray that they choose wisely for themselves.
I have to say that that is an inspirational story and that, like many such tales, people will take from it what they need or believe.
Some will see it as proof of the power of prayer or even that the gods directly intervene in human existence. For me, I see a woman who rolled the dice on the strength of her beliefs and got lucky (or had doctors who gave her bad advice to start with). Her determination got what most of us would see as a 'fair' reward but none of us would have been surprised if the gamble had gone sour - that's what life is like, with people seldom getting what is just.
What is wrong is taking that story and turning it into a anti-abortion stick to beat woman-kind into dogmatic submission. As long as people don't do that, then, as I said in opening, people will take from the story what speaks to their needs.
Some will see it as proof of the power of prayer or even that the gods directly intervene in human existence. For me, I see a woman who rolled the dice on the strength of her beliefs and got lucky (or had doctors who gave her bad advice to start with). Her determination got what most of us would see as a 'fair' reward but none of us would have been surprised if the gamble had gone sour - that's what life is like, with people seldom getting what is just.
What is wrong is taking that story and turning it into a anti-abortion stick to beat woman-kind into dogmatic submission. As long as people don't do that, then, as I said in opening, people will take from the story what speaks to their needs.
Elder999 wrote
+1 As a bastard I am thankful that I live in a society that neither forces or requires abortion nor makes it completely illegal. I do think that there should be some restrictions placed on some procedures and some notifications for parents of minors and that those should be decided at the state level not the federal level.
I do pray for wisdom and strength for the women that are for whatever reason considering abortion elder999, I not only pray for the wisdom to chose wisely for themselves but also wisely for their child and wisely for the father who has no say one way or the other, for the extended family that may receive or be denied a new part of the family.
Regards
Brian King
+1 As a bastard I am thankful that I live in a society that neither forces or requires abortion nor makes it completely illegal. I do think that there should be some restrictions placed on some procedures and some notifications for parents of minors and that those should be decided at the state level not the federal level.
I do pray for wisdom and strength for the women that are for whatever reason considering abortion elder999, I not only pray for the wisdom to chose wisely for themselves but also wisely for their child and wisely for the father who has no say one way or the other, for the extended family that may receive or be denied a new part of the family.
Regards
Brian King
Sukerkin wrote:
I do not see a stick here sir. A stick might be showing a link to an abortion gone wrong (for either side of the debate) showing pictures of babies aborted at the different terms of the pregnancies illustrating their development. A stick could be telling women that abortion is a simple procedure much like having an infected toenail removed and that they will not suffer any consequences physical or emotional. A stick might be the justifications to have requirements to abort babies that do not meet a certain standards. Some see a piece of flesh that may turn out to be a disabled human and think that throwing out that piece of flesh is the right and humane thing to do. I do not and will state so in as even and understanding tone as I am able. I see that piece of flesh as a human and no matter how disabled they have something to contribute to our societies.
So far in this discussion I do not see a stick being wielded, merely a story and some questions asked and statements offered and my attempting to give my opinionated answers and replies to those questions and statements. I am willing to concede that your seeing a stick wielded might say something about my style of writing or my opinion and the way that I state it, I will as you know reflect on this. I might come to the conclusion to try to soften my approach but I might also come to the conclusion that seeing a stick in a stick free hand might be a reflection on the one seeing the stick
Regards my friend
Brian King
I do not see a stick here sir. A stick might be showing a link to an abortion gone wrong (for either side of the debate) showing pictures of babies aborted at the different terms of the pregnancies illustrating their development. A stick could be telling women that abortion is a simple procedure much like having an infected toenail removed and that they will not suffer any consequences physical or emotional. A stick might be the justifications to have requirements to abort babies that do not meet a certain standards. Some see a piece of flesh that may turn out to be a disabled human and think that throwing out that piece of flesh is the right and humane thing to do. I do not and will state so in as even and understanding tone as I am able. I see that piece of flesh as a human and no matter how disabled they have something to contribute to our societies.
So far in this discussion I do not see a stick being wielded, merely a story and some questions asked and statements offered and my attempting to give my opinionated answers and replies to those questions and statements. I am willing to concede that your seeing a stick wielded might say something about my style of writing or my opinion and the way that I state it, I will as you know reflect on this. I might come to the conclusion to try to soften my approach but I might also come to the conclusion that seeing a stick in a stick free hand might be a reflection on the one seeing the stick
Regards my friend
Brian King
I think you mistake my intent if you took that line of mine to be directed at yourself, Brian. I can assure you that that was not the case.
I also agree that there is no explicit 'stick' in the mail that prompted the OP. There is, however, quite a hefty implicit 'message' that lies in the background that I'm sure some would hear.
I also agree that there is no explicit 'stick' in the mail that prompted the OP. There is, however, quite a hefty implicit 'message' that lies in the background that I'm sure some would hear.
Bottom line, in life there are winners, and there are losers. If it is a viable healthy pregnancy, ended out of convenience, because of a young and immature female, not receiving the pros and cons of that decision, she may well have to come to grips with that decision later in life. I have heard that the guilt feelings later in life are unbearable. I have also read stories of people who make a decision to take an unwanted pregnancy to full term, and was emotionally gratified years later. But the fact of the matter is, I have never read or heard anyone say, I am so glad I got rid of that pregnancy, best thing I ever did. Everyone reading this thread is a product of a pregnancy gone right, and that is because there are no other voices to be heard. It is great to advocate for other people, when we ourselves, are not involved with that situation. Lets hear from someone in this forum, that can step up to the plate, and admit to an abortion, and tell us how great it was. The best thing to do is pray that you never have to make that decision, and if you do have to, pray that it is the right one. There are no religious over tones or under tones, other then the praying part I mentioned. But there are definitely emotional scars that can last a life time.
Sukerkin wrote:
Ah so sorry I did take your post as a reply to me and my post. LOL I have misunderstood both your and Tez3s posts before as you often combine replies, opinions and views without separating them. We have spoken before about this on different threads and I understand it is a British thing but dang if I will ever get a handle on it.
There are lots of messages worthy of hearing. I do not see speaking them or ignoring them as necessarily a bad thing. Censoring one view on the other hand-
Brian
Ah so sorry I did take your post as a reply to me and my post. LOL I have misunderstood both your and Tez3s posts before as you often combine replies, opinions and views without separating them. We have spoken before about this on different threads and I understand it is a British thing but dang if I will ever get a handle on it.
There are lots of messages worthy of hearing. I do not see speaking them or ignoring them as necessarily a bad thing. Censoring one view on the other hand-
Brian
