Things that are ridiculous in Martial Arts

[dvcochran]

This somersaulting on bricks baked in an oven clip from the video survey thread might not be the most ridiculous thing I've seen in Martial Arts but it might be the most embarrassing.

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Dickheads.

Yes, what the heck kind of competition was that? Breaking but what the hxxx? Must have been made out of rice crispies.

 

[Flying Crane]

We has a disassembled human skull in my undergrad anatomy and physiology lab. There’s a protrusion on the ethmoid bone called the chista galli. My professor was showing this and told us that’s the part that kills you when the nose is pushed into the skull. I told her I heard that was a myth, to which she very seriously and matter of factly told me a lot of martial arts train that and it’s a widely known fact it’s true.

I kept my mouth shut. No point in arguing against a Ph.D. who thinks she knows everything and controls my grade.

I actually believe it is possible, but unlikely. It would mean hitting with enough force to Severely break the facial bones after smashing through the cartilage, and overcoming the give that comes from the head flopping backwards on the neck. I suspect it would be hard to do with a punch, and I’ve never had opportunity to really give it a test run on anybody. I’ve not found any willing training partners.

Think about it: you could really wind up with a baseball bat and smash someone in the face in the same way, and kill them. I think that would accomplish the described results. I just doubt it would be as possible with a hand strike. Although you might kill them by breaking the neck instead.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Something another thread reminded me of thats ridiculous: being told you 'have' to teach, or that teaching is part of the process (more than being an assistant instructor), while the main instructor does nothing, and doesn't pay you (or makes you pay). Thats definitely ridiculous.

Also people who claim if you start your own school, its dishonoring the style, and/or you have to pay then a fee for the privilege, even if you dont want to be in their organization. Both of those i find ridiculous.

 

[KenpoMaster805]

I disagree that an 18 year old should get a 5th degree she is still young

 

[Dirty Dog]

I actually believe it is possible, but unlikely. It would mean hitting with enough force to Severely break the facial bones after smashing through the cartilage, and overcoming the give that comes from the head flopping backwards on the neck. I suspect it would be hard to do with a punch, and I’ve never had opportunity to really give it a test run on anybody. I’ve not found any willing training partners.

Think about it: you could really wind up with a baseball bat and smash someone in the face in the same way, and kill them. I think that would accomplish the described results. I just doubt it would be as possible with a hand strike. Although you might kill them by breaking the neck instead.

No matter how badly you break the face, you'd still have to break the base of the skull before you could push anything into the brain.
It's possible to kill someone with a facial strike. But it's absolutely not because you push the nose into the brain.
You can cause a facial fracture which cuts one or both of the ethomoid arteries. You can cause any number of injuries that can obstruct the airway. You can cause brain injury. Subdural bleeds. Epidural bleeds. Carotid or vertebral artery dissections.
But you're not going to push the nose into the brain.

 

[Flying Crane]

No matter how badly you break the face, you'd still have to break the base of the skull before you could push anything into the brain.
It's possible to kill someone with a facial strike. But it's absolutely not because you push the nose into the brain.
You can cause a facial fracture which cuts one or both of the ethomoid arteries. You can cause any number of injuries that can obstruct the airway. You can cause brain injury. Subdural bleeds. Epidural bleeds. Carotid or vertebral artery dissections.
But you're not going to push the nose into the brain.

True, you will not push the nose into the brain.

However, if you smash up the facial bones and the skull behind them badly enough, I suspect you could end up driving that interior piece of bone into the brain, accomplishing what @JR 137’s anatomy professor was describing.

But my point is, it will never be accomplished with a punch or a kick. It would take much heavier trauma to do it. So to hold it out there as a possibility is fantasy.

 

[JP3]

Being an old fart, I remember when this practice started, and who started it. And it seems to be getting worse.

I apologize. I mean, I didn't start it, but I've not done anything to fix it, so... it must partially be my fault.

The guy from which I got the majority of my Tomiki Aikido instruction from didn't ever ask people their rank, he'd ask them how long they'd been training something and their average of classes per week. He said he started doing that when he met two brown belts in judo the same class... one of them was shiny, new & stiff an the other was so worn out it really wasn't actually brown any longer, it was way-way vfaded and the inside was showing through gray & white in lots of places.

Both brown belts, one had been promoted after a demo a couple of weeks earlier... the other had been a brown belt for over 20 years. You "might" say there was a bit of a skill difference.

 

[JR 137]

I actually believe it is possible, but unlikely. It would mean hitting with enough force to Severely break the facial bones after smashing through the cartilage, and overcoming the give that comes from the head flopping backwards on the neck. I suspect it would be hard to do with a punch, and I’ve never had opportunity to really give it a test run on anybody. I’ve not found any willing training partners.

Think about it: you could really wind up with a baseball bat and smash someone in the face in the same way, and kill them. I think that would accomplish the described results. I just doubt it would be as possible with a hand strike. Although you might kill them by breaking the neck instead.

No matter how badly you break the face, you'd still have to break the base of the skull before you could push anything into the brain.
It's possible to kill someone with a facial strike. But it's absolutely not because you push the nose into the brain.
You can cause a facial fracture which cuts one or both of the ethomoid arteries. You can cause any number of injuries that can obstruct the airway. You can cause brain injury. Subdural bleeds. Epidural bleeds. Carotid or vertebral artery dissections.
But you're not going to push the nose into the brain.

I’d say car accident force would probably do it. Along with a lot of other injuries that the nose through the brain thing would be insignificant in the whole grand scheme of things.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’d say car accident force would probably do it. Along with a lot of other injuries that the nose through the brain thing would be insignificant in the whole grand scheme of things.

Yup, that’s exactly what I was getting at.

 

[Gweilo]

An 18 year old girl, 5th Dan, many moons ago, when I was bothered about rank and international standards, I would have echoed many of the thoughts stated in this thread. I never got to 5th Dan, but I know the work involved to get to 3rd Dan. Is she really 5th Dan, I doubt it, and it will say more about that school or organisation than ma rankings. A while ago, I met a chap, who was 4th dan TKD, he went on to coach British Olympic team, and was the instructor for a young lady called Jade Jones, whilst talking to this chap, I noticed although he was 4th dan, he had no stripes, or badges upon his belt or uniform, so I asked why he had none of the usual paraphernalia associated with his grade, his answer was, "I let the quality of my techniques, determine my rank". This statement took a little while to sink in, and I think it's relevant in the case of this young lady.

 

[WaterGal]

I’d say car accident force would probably do it. Along with a lot of other injuries that the nose through the brain thing would be insignificant in the whole grand scheme of things.

For what it's worth, I was in a bad car accident, where I broke my nose and maxillary sinus bone, and had 20-some stitches put in my face and mouth (also a number of other injuries). The things they were concerned about in the ER were 1) spinal injury and 2) abdominal bleeding/damage from being thrown forward against the seat belt. Not the broken bones in my nose being pushed into my brain.

 

[Bruce7]

For what it's worth, I was in a bad car accident, where I broke my nose and maxillary sinus bone, and had 20-some stitches put in my face and mouth (also a number of other injuries). The things they were concerned about in the ER were 1) spinal injury and 2) abdominal bleeding/damage from being thrown forward against the seat belt. Not the broken bones in my nose being pushed into my brain.

I am sorry for your accident. Hope you are feeling better.
I am sorry to disagree, this is one time I have to agree with the ER.
Internal bleeding will kill you quick and the spinal injury is very hard to fix if not caught early.
If they thought there might be a brain injury it would have had a greater priority. Fixing your face and sinus bone is not life threatening.

I came in one time with a kidney stone. The pain was so great all I could do is scream. I lay on a gurney for nearly an hour, before I was put in a room and got some morphine. Looking back on it I understand they have rules, at the time I wanted to kill all of them for not giving any pain medication for an hour. They have a hard job put up with people like me.

 

[WaterGal]

I am for your accident. Hope you are feeling better.
I am sorry to disagree, this one time I have to agree with the ER.
Internal bleeding will kill you quick and the spinal injury is very hard to fix if not caught early.
If they thought there might be brain injury it would have had a greater priority. Fixing your face and sinus bone is not life threatening.

I came in one time with a kidney stone. The pain was so great all I could do is scream. I lay on a gurney for nearly an hour, before I was put in a room and got some morphine. Looking back on it I understand they have rules, at the time I wanted to kill all of them for not giving any pain medication for an hour. They have a hard job put up with people like me.

Thanks, that was a number of years ago and I'm much better now.

My point was that, if "broken nose bone gets pushed into the brain and kills you" was a likely result of getting hit the face, the doctors in the ER would've been concerned about it. So it seems like that's not even a likely result of a car accident that did break my nose, nevermind a punch to the face.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I am sorry for your accident. Hope you are feeling better.
I am sorry to disagree, this is one time I have to agree with the ER.
Internal bleeding will kill you quick and the spinal injury is very hard to fix if not caught early.
If they thought there might be a brain injury it would have had a greater priority. Fixing your face and sinus bone is not life threatening.

I came in one time with a kidney stone. The pain was so great all I could do is scream. I lay on a gurney for nearly an hour, before I was put in a room and got some morphine. Looking back on it I understand they have rules, at the time I wanted to kill all of them for not giving any pain medication for an hour. They have a hard job put up with people like me.

I think that was actually @WaterGal's point: they weren't worried about the facial bones, because they didn't present an imminent threat to life.

EDIT: If I'd read one more post, I could have saved posting this. But then, how would I keep up my post count?

 

[Gweilo]

The nose through to the brain, I was told about this technique by a teacher a while back, when we where learning about, anatomical weak points, pressure points, nerve attacks etc, it was stated that a palm strike at a 45 degree angle upwards would result in the brain injury, I do not know if it is true, never tried it, never wanted to try it, and never heard of it happening, however, in these classes we where told about the pressure point M HN 5, which is on the eyebrow about 1 inch above the pupil, ( you can find it by running the finger along the eye brow until you find a dip/recess), you will not find this point on the usual run of the mill meridian maps. A similar strike to the one mentioned will result in a knock out on most people, tried it several times, and it works, striking this point at a different angle has the possible effect of eye damage and or damage to the optic nerve and possible death, now I have not tried or wanted to try this other angle. Other things this teacher taught where true, and I have no reason to doubt it's true, but sometimes striking the right place, in the right way, is the only way to get the right result.

 

[dvcochran]

I fully buy in to the effectiveness of pressure points. What I do not buy in to is that striking a nerve in any way/direction can cause death. A pressure point strike or manipulation followed by a strike that could cause death, sure.

I can imagine affecting the nerve(s) that signal the heart, causing it to misfire but I have never actually heard of it being done by any kind of strike to the chest for example.

But how can striking a nerve on top of the eye socket cause death?

I hope someone else can explain this better than I have.

 

[Gweilo]

From how it was explained, a strike to M HN 5 in a certain direction, depending on the strength of impact can cause swelling on the eye as a minor injury, to detaching the retina from the eye, which can cause blindness, to detaching the optic nerve from the eye ball, which can lead to death, that's how it was basically explained. It is similar to Xyphoid process, in men, when they get to approx 40, the process has completed, leaving strikes in certain directions, at a certain place, can cause minor bones to splinter or break, which can puncture or tear the liver.

 

[WaterGal]

The xyphoid process is a piece of cartilage attached to your sternum. If you broke it, I'm sure it would hurt like MF-er, maybe even scratch an organ, but I doubt it would kill you.

 

[Gweilo]

Yes it can kill, it is one of the main factors of liver damage to men over 40 in motorcycle accidents, once it breaks, if it travels to the right side of the body, the liver is suceptable, These things where taught, so the implications of striking these regions are realised by a student, I.E last resort.

 

[Deleted member 34973]

Instructors, that teach people to fight, but have never actually been in one. That is pretty ridiculous.