The step thru punch in use.

[bayonet]

Guy got what he was looking for....big mouth got busted...hit first ..talk later. Good clip. Any other sites that show random acts of violence? A guy looking for a fight, like this 'banger, stands there with his hands down..notice his big mouthed friends did not do a thing!! I wonder what he was thinking when he woke up in the ER? Typical idiot...Support your local police department.

 

[KenpoDave]

Given the forward momentum of the step through punch here which technique, or family of techniques would be best applied to it? Should you try and stop him dead in his tracks with something like 5 Swords, where you move into him, or should you use something like Destructive Kneel, where you move off the line of attack?

Should have seen it coming. The guy got what he deserved, but he should never have allowed the guy from the car to get that close without countering. Personally, I think a nice kick that would have put his nuts in his nostrils would have slowed the approach...

But armchair quarterbacking won't do it. I think this one deserves some mat time!

 

[arnisador]

Any other sites that show random acts of violence?

There are tons of them. They show up everywhere!

 

[BlackCatBonz]

something that also cracks me up - if that guy did defend himself, we would all be sitting here ripping apart the way he did it and how we wouldve done it differently.......(hmmm, kinda reminds of guitar players fighting)

 

[MJS]

Guy got what he was looking for....big mouth got busted...hit first ..talk later. Good clip. Any other sites that show random acts of violence? A guy looking for a fight, like this 'banger, stands there with his hands down..notice his big mouthed friends did not do a thing!! I wonder what he was thinking when he woke up in the ER? Typical idiot...Support your local police department.

Lets try to stay focused on the topic of the discussion. The link was posted to discuss the step thru punch, and techniques best suited for this type of attack, not if this guy deserved to get hit, his big mouth, etc.

Mike

 

[DavidCC]

What a great bunch of friends the "loser" has! I would hope my friends would at least not let the guy stomp on my face.

In our curriculuum we have a number of technciques that might be very effective there. #10 uses a outward block while stepping right foot to 12, and a ridge hand to the groin (for openers, it goes on from there...) Or #8, similar block with a strike to the throat... so I agree, my reaction (I hope!) would be to step forward and deliver something nasty down the middle.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Just for discussion, if you see the guy coming at you in such a manner, execute a front snap kick directly to his centerline. Why wait for him to throw the first punch. There is nothing, including the law, that says that you have to wait for him to hit you before you can respond. He commited an aggressive act, you were in fear for you safety as he was coming towards you, and you kicked him in the gotcha.

 

[Mikael151]

Just for discussion, if you see the guy coming at you in such a manner, execute a front snap kick directly to his centerline. Why wait for him to throw the first punch. There is nothing, including the law, that says that you have to wait for him to hit you before you can respond. He commited an aggressive act, you were in fear for you safety as he was coming towards you, and you kicked him in the gotcha.

Exactly. You don't need someone to attack in order to initiate a technique.

 

[bayonet]

Perhaps I got caught up in the moment, sorry mods. As far as techs, go I would say first and foremost don't put yourself in a position like our "tough" gangster friend, and #2, imagine if "big mouth" had a gun.....Okay back to the subject,....A version of Detour from Doom or a modified version of "Calming the Storm" as DLK stated. Wait...Both seem a little similar....????? Or for those of us that have played football, Charging Ram........flying....let me have it fellow kenpoist.....

 

[Doc]

something that also cracks me up - if that guy did defend himself, we would all be sitting here ripping apart the way he did it and how we wouldve done it differently.......(hmmm, kinda reminds of guitar players fighting)

You're probably right, but at least to a lesser degree than some other forums that specialize in non-constructive criticism. I consider this a teaching/learning forum with a social componant. So, how about the original question? This attack is NOT a "step through punch." In fact it is far from it.

All productive discussions should begin from a common point of understanding. General information, (and in this case incorrect) always produce a general or negative results. Specifics would be the most useful to those who may choose to just "listen" rather than participate in the discussion here. Those who participate may also benefit by tackling what appears to be the new question born from the original. "What actually constitutes a step-through martial arts punch?"

Once established, perhaps a discussion of its efficacy is in order first, followed by methodologies to negate its possible effects, if warranted.

Then again, what do I know!

 

[DavidCC]

Frame by frame it's true, his left foot moves forward almost even with his right as the punch is thrown. The punch starts with right foot forward. SO is this suffucuent for most fo the step-through techniques to work to a satisfactory degree? Or does this change it enough that something entirely different would be better?

Above I said I would move into him and deliver something up the middle, and I don't see anything that would make me change my mind. I suppose if I was Steven Segal or something I would be able to throw that guy over a mountain with all of that momentum and no balance, but I'm not, so I would stick with what I could actually do... avoid that big looping haymaker and crack a rib.

However I am very interested in what people who can do more than me would do.
-DC

 

[carmstrong]

I've long believed that it is much more natural for people to throw punches with the opposite leg forward. That feels more natural to me anyway. And look at baseball pitchers...can you imagine pitching right handed with your right leg forward? There seems to be more power or balance or something with the left leg forward.

Obviously, in the heat of a fight, punches are probably thrown from many different orientations, but I just don't think many people (except some classical Karate guy) would choose to throw a straight right punch while stepping forward with the right leg - the way people do in technique lines. Seems more like a Karate affectation than something that most people would naturally do.

Maybe there's a good reason that just eludes me to create a ton of techniques for this kind of attack. Maybe it's an Ideal-Phase thing.

So has anyone spent much time trying to adapt our right-step-through techs to address attacks from right punches with the left leg forward?

Just something I've always wondered,

Chris

 

[Doc]

I've long believed that it is much more natural for people to throw punches with the opposite leg forward. That feels more natural to me anyway. And look at baseball pitchers...can you imagine pitching right handed with your right leg forward? There seems to be more power or balance or something with the left leg forward.

Obviously, in the heat of a fight, punches are probably thrown from many different orientations, but I just don't think many people (except some classical Karate guy) would choose to throw a straight right punch while stepping forward with the right leg - the way people do in technique lines. Seems more like a Karate affectation than something that most people would naturally do.
Chris

My research and experience suggests you are correct sir.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Not to be a dissenting voice or anything here, but I have a back injury near the psiatic (sp) nerve on the lower left lumbar area of my back which necessitates me fighting with my right side forward if at all possible. I lose a tremendous amount of mobility if I fight left side forward, so I compensated. I still retain quite a bit of power with the lead hand as I've developed a method of hip rotation that allows me to use most of the torque I would have if I had left leg forward. Granted, no amount of hip rotation from a lead hand can compensate for full power hip rotation from the rear hand.

Now, with background in place...what about someone in my situation where even though my stronger hand (right) is in front, so is my right leg?

 

[carmstrong]

Hi Steve,

Sure that makes sense. You've learned to compensate for a physical limitation. I was mostly thinking of some yahoo who just throws a punch at you - not a trained karate guy. I think that kind of person isn't very likely to step-through with a straight punch. Yet we spend a lot of time learning to deal with that kind of attack.

We'll be ready if a karate-guy punches at us in that way, but I think we should experiment with other arm-leg orientations that aren't addressed so much in the standard Kenpo curriculum.

I tend to favor right-side forward myself and there are ways to get power, agreed. But I was thinking more about naturalness rather than power.

Chris

 

[TwistofFat]

Perhaps if loudmouth 1 had taken 'any' defensive posture, lm #2 might not have ended the confrontation in one shot. A real life example of a good rule from Kenpo (or any MA): Avoid rather than check; check rather than block; block rather than strike; strike rather than maim; maim rather than kill.

LM #1 may have wanted to apply any. The days of chest to chest circling disappeared for me in 1976 (3rd grade) and for this fella on a street corner last Saturday night.

 

[MJS]

Hi Steve,

Sure that makes sense. You've learned to compensate for a physical limitation. I was mostly thinking of some yahoo who just throws a punch at you - not a trained karate guy. I think that kind of person isn't very likely to step-through with a straight punch. Yet we spend a lot of time learning to deal with that kind of attack.

We'll be ready if a karate-guy punches at us in that way, but I think we should experiment with other arm-leg orientations that aren't addressed so much in the standard Kenpo curriculum.

I tend to favor right-side forward myself and there are ways to get power, agreed. But I was thinking more about naturalness rather than power.

Chris

Thats true. I think back to times when I've had beginners throw a punch. What do they do? Just throw without moving the right foot forward. Why? Its possible thats all that they know how to do. Once we teach the tech in the 'ideal phase' with them stepping forward, we need to stress the importance of them being able to adapt to the person that does not step forward.

Mike

 

[Doc]

We'll be ready if a karate-guy punches at us in that way, but I think we should experiment with other arm-leg orientations that aren't addressed so much in the standard Kenpo curriculum.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Insert the work SOME in front of "standard Kenpo curriculum."

 

[Doc]

Not to be a dissenting voice or anything here, but I have a back injury near the psiatic (sp) nerve on the lower left lumbar area of my back which necessitates me fighting with my right side forward if at all possible. I lose a tremendous amount of mobility if I fight left side forward, so I compensated. I still retain quite a bit of power with the lead hand as I've developed a method of hip rotation that allows me to use most of the torque I would have if I had left leg forward. Granted, no amount of hip rotation from a lead hand can compensate for full power hip rotation from the rear hand.

Now, with background in place...what about someone in my situation where even though my stronger hand (right) is in front, so is my right leg?

Despite thoughts to the contrary sir, I find no limitation in your chosen orientation to defend yourself. Only in western influenced fighting is the strong side held in reserve to the rear. In the Chinese Arts of my experience, the strong side is always placed forward and has worked quite well for myself and Ed Parker himself in the multiple right handed systems he created and influenced.

 

[IWishToLearn]

Dr. Chapel,

Next time I can make it to So Cali can I come pick your brain again especially for direction in compensation for that injury? :asian: