The step thru punch in use.

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

http://media5.big-boys .com/content/asswhoop.wmv

Just a little reminder that people do use the step thru, this is a prime example of it.

Copy and paste the link and then move the .com back one space and you're watching it.

Hmm, I wonder if AK has anything to deal with this LOL?

DarK LorD

 

[Rich_Hale]

Dear Lord,

I would write more, but I have to go practice all my self defense techniques, that defend against a right step through punch.

GREAT CLIP!

 

[dubljay]

Given the forward momentum of the step through punch here which technique, or family of techniques would be best applied to it? Should you try and stop him dead in his tracks with something like 5 Swords, where you move into him, or should you use something like Destructive Kneel, where you move off the line of attack?

 

[MJS]

Given the forward momentum of the step through punch here which technique, or family of techniques would be best applied to it? Should you try and stop him dead in his tracks with somthing like 5 Swords, where you move into him, or should you use something like Destructive Kneel, where you move off the line of attack?

Me personally, if I had the choice, I'd prefer to move off the line of attack. Thundering Hammers, Shield and Mace, etc. are ones that come to mind.

Mike

 

[dubljay]

Me personally, if I had the choice, I'd prefer to move off the line of attack. Thundering Hammers, Shield and Mace, etc. are ones that come to mind.

Mike

In an open area like that on the sidewalk I think that would be the best way to go. The best way to avoid getting hit (and knocked out) is simply not be there. What if you were in a more confined space, like in a club or bar? Would it be better to jam them up by stepping into them?

 

[MJS]

What if you were in a more confined space, like in a club or bar? Would it be better to jam them up by stepping into them?

Considering the potential for the lack of room, I'd say moving into them would work. Moving in with a strike, such as in Thrusting Wedge, would be an idea. From there, working closer range strikes, ie: knees, elbows, stomps, etc. would be effective.

Mike

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Given the forward momentum of the step through punch here which technique, or family of techniques would be best applied to it? Should you try and stop him dead in his tracks with something like 5 Swords, where you move into him, or should you use something like Destructive Kneel, where you move off the line of attack?

Given the depth, I'd say Calming the Storm or a modified version of Triggered Salute to capture the centerline. Environment and Target Availability are what dictate a tech, that doesn't mean it has to be an ideal attack for an Ideal tech.

DarK LorD

 

[dubljay]

I definately agree that the ideal phase of just about any technique would not be the best choice. I think the most critical part of any technique is the entry into it. I happen to think that getting off the line of attack would be the better course of action for myself, as I am a bit of a light weight. Do you feel that if you stay on line, trying to capture his centerline you get more effectiveness out of his own forward momentum?

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I definately agree that the ideal phase of just about any technique would not be the best choice. I think the most critical part of any technique is the entry into it. I happen to think that getting off the line of attack would be the better course of action for myself, as I am a bit of a light weight. Do you feel that if you stay on line, trying to capture his centerline you get more effectiveness out of his own forward momentum?

If you're suggesting moving offline to 11, bad idea, it's a hook not a straight, unless you're gonna duck and do a version of Leaping Crane. I'm a pretty big boy @ 6' and 205# so I can get away with a lot LOL. With him coming in the way he did, WOW, talk about borrowed force LOL, so yes is the answer to your question. Hell, I'd even think about doing Bow of Compulsion with the first elbow going up under the chin to capitalize on his directional harmony.

DarK LorD

 

[dubljay]

Nicely said sir. Yes, stepping off towards 11 would be bad, running square into the punch, and I have never really been a fan of trying to duck under a punch, I've tried it sparring and had my bell rung a couple times. If I were to move off line it would be back towards 4:30, and using a kick, even if I didn't move off line I would definately drop back, going head to head like that with a bigger guys usually ends up bad for me.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Nicely said sir. Yes, stepping off towards 11 would be bad, running square into the punch, and I have never really been a fan of trying to duck under a punch, I've tried it sparring and had my bell rung a couple times. If I were to move off line it would be back towards 4:30, and using a kick, even if I didn't move off line I would definately drop back, going head to head like that with a bigger guys usually ends up bad for me.

Ok, let's look at your options dropping back to 4, right or left foot back? Dropping back with the right foot leaves you the left leg to kick with (probably not a good idea if you want to use strong side), it also gives him the ability to continue his action with the left hand or leg, that's not really moving to a zone of sanctuary leaving his dimensions intact (HWD). While stepping to 730 with the left will at least get you into a zone of sanctuary and obscurity you may still get hit with the hook because of the lunge. Moving up centerline is really the best option to capture dimensions.

DarK LorD

 

[kenpoworks]

I got caught with a dig just like that when I was 13 it fractured my jaw:whip: , I started Jnr boxing when I could talk again. That whole scene will be played out the world over most weekends thanks to testosterone, pride, pecking order, proving manhood etc.
Neither one of them could fight by our lofty standards, but it wouldn't make them any less dangerous in the right/wrong situation.
Oh Yeh!, Iagree with most of what DKL says and quite liked the idea of "capturing dimensions"..thanks for bringing back a painful memory.
Richie

 

[MJS]

If you're suggesting moving offline to 11, bad idea, it's a hook not a straight, unless you're gonna duck and do a version of Leaping Crane. I'm a pretty big boy @ 6' and 205# so I can get away with a lot LOL. With him coming in the way he did, WOW, talk about borrowed force LOL, so yes is the answer to your question. Hell, I'd even think about doing Bow of Compulsion with the first elbow going up under the chin to capitalize on his directional harmony.

DarK LorD

Yup, now that I watched it a 2nd time, it was a hook. Wasn't your typical big wind up haymaker, but nevertheless, still consisted of a step thru and hooking motion. That being said, moving up rather than on an angle is better.

Mike

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Yup, now that I watched it a 2nd time, it was a hook. Wasn't your typical big wind up haymaker, but nevertheless, still consisted of a step thru and hooking motion. That being said, moving up rather than on an angle is better.

Mike

Looking at it on video is the easy part, at least for us LOL. We can speculate what we'd do till the cows come running home, but the reality is, do we really know what we'd do when the feces hits the rotary oscillator LOL. Running spontaneity drills with these types of attacks is the only training we can do to hopefully get it right when it does. Learning to discern motion, before and during the attack is crucial.

DarK LorD

 

[Bode]

I wouldn't even call that a "step through punch." The attacker was walking, his right lead foot landed while his hand was still at his side. Then he lunged using his rear foot to propel him and his hand travelled upward in a shallow roundhouse. He did his best to obscure the attack and make it look as if he just wanted to get in a pushing match. Very typical in street fighting. Disguise the intent until in range then wham...

Discussing techniques and which ones apply here, to me, seems a bit premature. What about recognizing the attack before it happens? Preparing for the attack in a way that doesn't put you at a disadvantage? Both of which the victim failed to do. It's great that Kenpo has responses for every attack likely to happen, but if we can't discuss what leads up to an attack and prepare for it, then all the responses in the world are likely moot.

IF the victim had recognized this guy meant business then he would have assumed a posture that indicated he ALSO was ready to throwdown. Then the attacker might have though twice and stayed out of range.... but whatever, the victim was a punk who was running his mouth off anyway.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Discussing techniques and which ones apply here, to me, seems a bit premature. What about recognizing the attack before it happens? Preparing for the attack in a way that doesn't put you at a disadvantage? Both of which the victim failed to do. It's great that Kenpo has responses for every attack likely to happen, but if we can't discuss what leads up to an attack and prepare for it, then all the responses in the world are likely moot.

IF the victim had recognized this guy meant business then he would have assumed a posture that indicated he ALSO was ready to throwdown. Then the attacker might have though twice and stayed out of range.... but whatever, the victim was a punk who was running his mouth off anyway.

I think that's what I just said above in not so many words, yes?

DarK LorD

 

[Bode]

I think that's what I just said above in not so many words, yes?

Looking back, yes.

We can speculate what we'd do till the cows come running home, but the reality is, do we really know what we'd do when the feces hits the rotary oscillator LOL.

Couldn't agree more. This is why stress training, as you are fond of, is so important.

Learning to discern motion, before and during the attack is crucial.

I agree, but I think the term "motion" here requires more specific vocabulary. Motion is general and does not include the psychology of the confrontation. As you say, the understanding of motion BEFORE the attack is crucial. Without it you might never recognize the person who's ready to attack vs the person who just wants to punk you... then attack. But an attack does not necessarily involve motion. It may be psychological through verbal taunting or intimidation. These are two distinct areas of confrontation. Physical and Mental.
So, the better question to ask is, how does one train to recognize the attack and thus prevent it? How does one not be intimidated? And how do you diffuse the situation before it get's to the point of violence?
This video is the perfect example and I for one wish there were more of them.

 

[MJS]

Looking back, yes.

Couldn't agree more. This is why stress training, as you are fond of, is so important.

I agree, but I think the term "motion" here requires more specific vocabulary. Motion is general and does not include the psychology of the confrontation. As you say, the understanding of motion BEFORE the attack is crucial. Without it you might never recognize the person who's ready to attack vs the person who just wants to punk you... then attack. But an attack does not necessarily involve motion. It may be psychological through verbal taunting or intimidation. These are two distinct areas of confrontation. Physical and Mental.

So, the better question to ask is, how does one train to recognize the attack and thus prevent it? How does one not be intimidated? And how do you diffuse the situation before it get's to the point of violence?
This video is the perfect example and I for one wish there were more of them.

You and DKL, as well as myself in past posts have said it, and I agree 100%...running through drills, scenarios, etc., that will put you in the proper mindset, will be very helpful. How do we defuse it? IMO, we could start by not engaging in the verbal altercation that took place prior to the actual punch being thrown. I've said it before and I'll say it again..ego plays a big role. This guy was apparently too 'proud' to leave, because he stayed and continued to take part in the verbal exchange. Once the other guy got out of the car, IMO the phase of "talking your way out" was long past. As for recognizing what was going to happen? I talked about this with Clyde. This guy sees someone stop, get out of a car, and move quickly towards him. What does he do? He stands there and gets hit. If he didn't see that something was going to happen, he must need his eyes checked. Start preparing for some defense.

Just my .02

Mike

 

[Bode]

. As for recognizing what was going to happen? I talked about this with Clyde. This guy sees someone stop, get out of a car, and move quickly towards him. What does he do? He stands there and gets hit. If he didn't see that something was going to happen, he must need his eyes checked. Start preparing for some defense.

Yep.
I especially agree with the verbal taunting. That plays a big part in the realistic scenarios. Funny how the victim on the video didn't see that the attacker meant business. Seemed obvious to me. Likely he had adrenal dump and didn't know what to do. His body locked up. This to me, and I am sure you agree, is the most important aspect of training to overcome. All the techniques in the world are useless if you lock up.

Does anyone else have other similar "street" attack videos? I had a few that all were very similar. I'll see if I can find them.

 

[MJS]

This to me, and I am sure you agree, is the most important aspect of training to overcome. All the techniques in the world are useless if you lock up.

Yes, I agree. IMO, its important to include some aliveness during training. If we always go through our material in a relaxed manner, no stress, etc., whats going to happen when we really need to do that tech. in order to save ourselves?

Mike