The scary practicality of BJJ

[arnisador]

Your MMA class is Boxing, footwork and Muay Thai not MMA. It's what we call a 'stand up' class.

Agreed. If you have no grappling/groundwork mixed in, I wouldn't consider it MMA. I should say that I view MMA as primarily a sport method--not primarily a self-defense method.

MMA is more than just boxing, MT and BJJ though, for it to be MMA it also needs elements of other martial arts, karate, Judo, Aikido etc etc. The point of having MMA is to have as much ammunition as you can by knowing as much as you can and putting it together.

I don't see this the same way though. I see MMA as a spare, stripped-down system drawn from parts of much larger systems and ultimately containing relatively few techniques but combined in a way that works for you. It's not about having as much ammunition as you can by knowing as much as you can but about having the right ammunition for you by drawing from as much as you need. In practice people do very well with boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, and wrestling. What you're describing I would characterize as more of a JKD approach--but even then I expect it to be ultimately reduced, though not as much as in MMA.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I agree with pretty much everything that has been said so far. If you find yourself in a SD situation the goal should be to get up and escape as soon as you can. If you are applying a choke you keep it on until you KNOW the threat is ended. Then you get out of there and call the coppers.

 

[ETinCYQX]

Hello again everyone. As many of you know, I started my journey in BJJ about 3 weeks ago now. I have attended 11 classes so far, some gi, some not, and have learned a bit. The other students have been nothing but helpful. They always seem to give me some sort of pointer every class.

While it has been extremely difficult to do anything to my advantage against the higher ranking students (which is normal and I am not complaining about it), it has been fun, but brings up a question.

I know a lot of the students only use this for sport and competitive reasons, in fact, most of them do not even attend the MMA class that is offered at my gym, they only come in for the BJJ.

So let us put aside the competition and sport part of BJJ for a second, shall we?

As stated, I am horrible when rolling with the higher ranking students, but what would be the reprecussions of someone rushing and tackling me to the ground in a real life situation? If I do not bump my head, of course, my first move is going to be to put him in my guard. Then, probably something like a triangle (because I do not know many other moves right now).

Let's say I pull that off......

What do you do when you get said attacker in the triangle. It is all fun and games in the gym when your opponent taps and then you let go, but when you have someone that wants to inflict bodily harm on you, do you squeeze it until they pass out? Do you hold it until you feel they are no longer a threat? Do you hold it at "half strength" and tell them that if they don't chill the hell out they are going to BE chilled out?

I am interested in everyone's opinion. Although I love the sports part of this art, I am taking it also for practical reasons, so I would like to know what others think about this, or, if anyone has ever been placed in a similiar position before and what their reaction was.

Thank you!

The answer you want to hear, is it's better to sweep him from your guard and pound on him from mount. Ask your instructor about sweeps or get ups from guard if you want.

The answer you don't want to hear, but is really the right one, is relax and learn jiu jitsu for jiu jitsu. Once you have an understanding of grappling, you won't have to think about applying it in self defense if the situation arises.

 

[Tez3]

Agreed. If you have no grappling/groundwork mixed in, I wouldn't consider it MMA. I should say that I view MMA as primarily a sport method--not primarily a self-defense method.



I don't see this the same way though. I see MMA as a spare, stripped-down system drawn from parts of much larger systems and ultimately containing relatively few techniques but combined in a way that works for you. It's not about having as much ammunition as you can by knowing as much as you can but about having the right ammunition for you by drawing from as much as you need. In practice people do very well with boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, and wrestling. What you're describing I would characterize as more of a JKD approach--but even then I expect it to be ultimately reduced, though not as much as in MMA.

Well I did say techniques would be drawn from different styles! The 'trick' to MMA is getting the techniques that work for you thus giving you more ammunition. It's not that the style is pared down so much as it's that a fighter learns as much as they can and picks the techniques that work best for them. The comment I was replying to was saying that MMA is just generally boxing, MT and BJJ, my point was that it's more than just those styles used which you agree with.

 

[Buka]

I know of some gyms that started an "MMA" program, but it was really an advertising strategy to take advantage of a current popularity. There would be stand-up and there was some ground work, mostly based on what the current instructor, or guest instructor, had for mixed Art experience.

Other gyms had instructor(s) with MMA training and fight experience. Some had a cage and some didn't.

I think the best thing about both of them is teaching their students to think and fight outside the box they were used to.

 

[arnisador]

I know of some gyms that started an "MMA" program, but it was really an advertising strategy to take advantage of a current popularity. There would be stand-up and there was some ground work, mostly based on what the current instructor, or guest instructor, had for mixed Art experience.

I lived through this in the 80s when some Karate schools switched to black uniforms and claimed they were teaching ninjutsu--same kata etc., but now with a mysterious air about it.

 

[Tez3]

We've had this with 'kick boxing' ( boxercise really) and 'Kung Fu' people jump on the band wagon as they see money in it. There's certain characteristics that define a true MMA gym ( they aren't classes or schools for a start), the coaches are fight experienced in all aspects not just the actual fighting ie cornering, tactics, ring/cage craft etc. Those who trian there are usually fighting whether in amateur, semi or pro rules. There's a different atmosphere about an MMA gym from an 'MMA' school or class where the instructors are just teahcing techniques form other styles.

One of my favourite gyms, the guys are great. http://local.stv.tv/glasgow/going-o...a-day-in-the-life-of-a-griphouse-dinky-ninja/

Another of my favourite gyms, I've cornered the head coach there before in one of his fights and working with him is an experience, he's a definite character! http://www.dogsofwarmma.co.uk/index.html

These are very different from MMA 'schools' who jump on the MMA bandwagon.

 

[arnisador]

There's certain characteristics that define a true MMA gym ( they aren't classes or schools for a start), the coaches

This is a crucial difference already--between a teacher who intends to teach you the specific martial art he knows, transmitting a body of knowledge to you, vs. a coach who sees his or her job as bringing out the best fighter in you. There's a place for both; I was taught some iaido but coached in JKD.

 

[Kaygee]

....I guess my thread has been hijacked.... %-}

 

[James Kovacich]

Agreed. If you have no grappling/groundwork mixed in, I wouldn't consider it MMA. I should say that I view MMA as primarily a sport method--not primarily a self-defense method.



I don't see this the same way though. I see MMA as a spare, stripped-down system drawn from parts of much larger systems and ultimately containing relatively few techniques but combined in a way that works for you. It's not about having as much ammunition as you can by knowing as much as you can but about having the right ammunition for you by drawing from as much as you need. In practice people do very well with boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, and wrestling. What you're describing I would characterize as more of a JKD approach--but even then I expect it to be ultimately reduced, though not as much as in MMA.

I think I see it as you do. MMA started out with the original styles being tested against each other and evolved into the sport of MMA. The end result reflects the instructors themselves with "most" MMA sharing core tools not because they're written in stone like other arts but because these "ways" are what works most effectively.

I understand Tez's view but I believe in the end it's all MMA, none are better. Only the individual fighters are better on an individual basis.

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[James Kovacich]

Hello again everyone. As many of you know, I started my journey in BJJ about 3 weeks ago now. I have attended 11 classes so far, some gi, some not, and have learned a bit. The other students have been nothing but helpful. They always seem to give me some sort of pointer every class.

While it has been extremely difficult to do anything to my advantage against the higher ranking students (which is normal and I am not complaining about it), it has been fun, but brings up a question.

I know a lot of the students only use this for sport and competitive reasons, in fact, most of them do not even attend the MMA class that is offered at my gym, they only come in for the BJJ.

So let us put aside the competition and sport part of BJJ for a second, shall we?

As stated, I am horrible when rolling with the higher ranking students, but what would be the reprecussions of someone rushing and tackling me to the ground in a real life situation? If I do not bump my head, of course, my first move is going to be to put him in my guard. Then, probably something like a triangle (because I do not know many other moves right now).

Let's say I pull that off......

What do you do when you get said attacker in the triangle. It is all fun and games in the gym when your opponent taps and then you let go, but when you have someone that wants to inflict bodily harm on you, do you squeeze it until they pass out? Do you hold it until you feel they are no longer a threat? Do you hold it at "half strength" and tell them that if they don't chill the hell out they are going to BE chilled out?

I am interested in everyone's opinion. Although I love the sports part of this art, I am taking it also for practical reasons, so I would like to know what others think about this, or, if anyone has ever been placed in a similiar position before and what their reaction was.

Thank you!

Save yourself from a beating. Skip the triangle and think reversal. If you have to be on the ground you want to be on top doing the beating. And your goal should be to get off your back immediately and get back to your feet and leave.

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[Steve]

Save yourself from a beating. Skip the triangle and think reversal. If you have to be on the ground you want to be on top doing the beating. And your goal should be to get off your back immediately and get back to your feet and leave.

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The only exception to this is if you have friends and he doesn't. Pull guard and tie him up until your friend can take him out. He's a lot more vulnerable to your friends in your guard than under your mount. Course... If you have friends and he diesnt, This isn't exactly self defense anymore.


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[Kaygee]

Course... If you have friends and he diesnt, This isn't exactly self defense anymore.

...then what is it? Survival?

 

[James Kovacich]

...then what is it? Survival?

It's a fight.

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[Aiki Lee]

It's a beating, is what it is.

 

[Kaygee]

It's a fight.

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I thought that I had made it clear from my original post that was where I was going with this....

 

[Aiki Lee]

You did. Are you confused by James's comment?

 

[Kaygee]

You did. Are you confused by James's comment?

I guess I am. My original post was to question what I WOULD do in a ground situation in a real fight.

 

[Steve]

I guess I am. My original post was to question what I WOULD do in a ground situation in a real fight.

I guess my answer would be, "it depends."




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[arnisador]

The original question was more focused and admits of a more detailed answer than "it depends." But I suspect this thread has run its course.