The new Creative Poomsae Division at 2011 World Championship

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And thats why you would loose.... you dont KNOW that you are fighting "Joe Everyman" do you? You might be fighting someone with a ton of street experience and even if you were not he might have 2 friends with him. 30 years ago you were pretty safe in betting that the person you were facing had never seen a kick to the head. Now... there are a ton of people with experience in TKD, MMA and other styles.
Just a note. Even in tournaments what is the percentage of kicks that are directed at the head actually hitting? Pretty dang low and now you want to do that on the street? Have you ever actually been in a situation were you had to defend yourself?

I'd certainly call a kick to the head a reasonable risk.

If any of us connect with roundhouse to the head that's even half as good as our standard in sparring, Joe Everyman is not getting back up. The same probably goes for a kick to the ribs, actually.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I'd certainly call a kick to the head a reasonable risk.

If any of us connect with roundhouse to the head that's even half as good as our standard in sparring, Joe Everyman is not getting back up. The same probably goes for a kick to the ribs, actually.

I agree. I sparred once mucking around with a non martial arts mate. He can fight a bit and has been in a hell of a lot more fights than I have. The one thing that surprised me was the ease with which I could kick his head. We sometimes take for granted the fact that we spar against head kickers all the time so we expect a head kick and know how to defend against one. Basically I could have easily knocked him down with a head kick without much trouble at all which says a lot considering there are many better high kickers than me getting around.

 

[ETinCYQX]

And thats why you would loose.... you dont KNOW that you are fighting "Joe Everyman" do you? You might be fighting someone with a ton of street experience and even if you were not he might have 2 friends with him. 30 years ago you were pretty safe in betting that the person you were facing had never seen a kick to the head. Now... there are a ton of people with experience in TKD, MMA and other styles.
Just a note. Even in tournaments what is the percentage of kicks that are directed at the head actually hitting? Pretty dang low and now you want to do that on the street? Have you ever actually been in a situation were you had to defend yourself?

No, thankfully, I have not, at least not to that extent. I still don't care how much "street experience" he's got; if one of us kicks him in the head, or the ribs, or the leg, whatever, he's still not getting back up. The head is the easiest one-hit target for someone with training and it's even more useful with multiple opponents IMO. I've heard this before and argued it many many times. If your average street punk even with a lot of street fighting experience tries to block a TKD practicioner kicking him, he's just going to break his arm too. And, you can't catch any good TaeKwonDo high belt/black belt's foot. Don't even try that.

Also, I obviously don't know about you, but I don't usually miss headshots. I might miss one every five matches.

And like Ralph said; I've sparred with a lot of friends who fight a lot without MA experience, as well as a bunch with karate, TKD, MMA, etc. experience. No sweat to put a headshot on any of them.

 

[mango.man]

Also, I obviously don't know about you, but I don't usually miss headshots. I might miss one every five matches.

And how many would you say you attempt in every 5 matches that you only miss 1?

 

[ETinCYQX]

I don't pull it out as a "stand by" technique like some do, but I use it reasonably often. Generally when I'm fairly sure I can land it. Maybe 2-3 times a match on average.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

No, thankfully, I have not, at least not to that extent. I still don't care how much "street experience" he's got; if one of us kicks him in the head, or the ribs, or the leg, whatever, he's still not getting back up. The head is the easiest one-hit target for someone with training and it's even more useful with multiple opponents IMO. I've heard this before and argued it many many times. If your average street punk even with a lot of street fighting experience tries to block a TKD practicioner kicking him, he's just going to break his arm too. And, you can't catch any good TaeKwonDo high belt/black belt's foot. Don't even try that.

Also, I obviously don't know about you, but I don't usually miss headshots. I might miss one every five matches.

And like Ralph said; I've sparred with a lot of friends who fight a lot without MA experience, as well as a bunch with karate, TKD, MMA, etc. experience. No sweat to put a headshot on any of them.

As Ive said many times, there is a huge difference between joe average up the street or an average martial artist and a black belt's head kick. Too many people have seen fights where some guy with 6 months training under his belt starts throwing head kicks and gets pummelled, or some 'youtube hero' making the same mistake, but you get a 'real' tkd black belt kicking at your head and you'll be sorry. Not only do they know exactly when and when not to head kick but they also deliver it with maximum power in about half a second, blink and you've been kicked.

 

[terryl965]

I don't pull it out as a "stand by" technique like some do, but I use it reasonably often. Generally when I'm fairly sure I can land it. Maybe 2-3 times a match on average.

Wow what age group are you because if you are 18-32 than youb are not trying that many attempt at any National level tournament. or maybe you do not do Olympic style or you do not compete at the elite level because if you tried that many someone would just clock you

 

[ETinCYQX]

Wow what age group are you because if you are 18-32 than youb are not trying that many attempt at any National level tournament. or maybe you do not do Olympic style or you do not compete at the elite level because if you tried that many someone would just clock you.[\QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean by "Olympic" style but my dojang certainly leans more toward traditional. I haven't made it to a competition since my 18th birthday last June, but that's a fair approximation for in-class sparring for me, generally with my instructor.

 

[terryl965]

Wow what age group are you because if you are 18-32 than youb are not trying that many attempt at any National level tournament. or maybe you do not do Olympic style or you do not compete at the elite level because if you tried that many someone would just clock you.[\QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean by "Olympic" style but my dojang certainly leans more toward traditional. I haven't made it to a competition since my 18th birthday last June, but that's a fair approximation for in-class sparring for me, generally with my instructor.

WTF style how is that and if you are throwing three in your school at your instructor than your instructor should be telling you to stay low for a SD reason. But each there own.

 

[miguksaram]

Might as well just go to the ISKA and do your creatve poomsae and enjoy Disney World while you are there. TKD needs to stay pure and I know people enjoy this music and watching all these flips and summersalts and stuff but I like tradition. I do not even like the sport aspect of poomsae.

Pure? What is pure? Even Funakoshi in his book says that martial arts is meant to evovle and change from one instructor to the next. This is not to say that musical forms is evolution of TKD. I'm just saying that keeping something "pure" is keeping something stagnat.

Creative poomsae is something for fun. Something that a lot of kids, and yes some adults, enjoy doing because it allows them to create something that is their own. A good creative form will have a foundation based on strong "pure" techniques. So what is the problem?

 

[miguksaram]

This cannot be true. I can hear my Grandmaster beating his head on a wall all the way from Halifax.

This flashy sport BS is not good for us.

Why? It tends to attract new people to the martial arts, who may not have otherwise joined. What people fail to see that this is for entertainment. A good instructor would use this as an advantage to bring in people interested in the flash and the show them the picture of martial arts not just the flash.

 

[Disco]

Shame on you all.............You have forgotten the newest tenant of TKD (Korean wise that is) and that is 'Greed". This falls directly under their new system called "Your-Dough-Mine".
They saw a new way to include more folks into tournament action and stuff their pockets with more money. I feel sorry for anyone who actually thinks/believes that this was done to enrich the overall view of TKD.

 

[terryl965]

Pure? What is pure? Even Funakoshi in his book says that martial arts is meant to evovle and change from one instructor to the next. This is not to say that musical forms is evolution of TKD. I'm just saying that keeping something "pure" is keeping something stagnat.

Creative poomsae is something for fun. Something that a lot of kids, and yes some adults, enjoy doing because it allows them to create something that is their own. A good creative form will have a foundation based on strong "pure" techniques. So what is the problem?

Evolution is one thing creative with the music screaming at a high pitch is something else. When I talk pure it is in the sense of reality. no backflips. no cartwheels, no kicking to the cieling, left all the gymnastic in gymnastic. if it was solely dome with viable TKD or MA principle thanI am ok with that. Sorry if you do not agrree and love all the flash and jumping and gymnastic types of movement. I believe they should be left in the movies where they belong.

 

[miguksaram]

Shame on you all.............You have forgotten the newest tenant of TKD (Korean wise that is) and that is 'Greed". This falls directly under their new system called "Your-Dough-Mine".
They saw a new way to include more folks into tournament action and stuff their pockets with more money. I feel sorry for anyone who actually thinks/believes that this was done to enrich the overall view of TKD.

I see...so only Koreans in Taekwondo wish to line their pockets based off of these trends. I didn't see any emoticon so I can only assume that you are either a) ignorant or b)I'm just not quick in catching the sarcasm from your post.

Why not expand and get a different demographic of people interested in coming to a TKD tournament?

 

[miguksaram]

Evolution is one thing creative with the music screaming at a high pitch is something else. When I talk pure it is in the sense of reality. no backflips. no cartwheels, no kicking to the cieling, left all the gymnastic in gymnastic. if it was solely dome with viable TKD or MA principle thanI am ok with that. Sorry if you do not agrree and love all the flash and jumping and gymnastic types of movement. I believe they should be left in the movies where they belong.

By your definition of pure we should not have tournaments at all since they do not display reality.

Besides, where do you think those kids are getting discovered that you see in the movies?

 

[Disco]

I see...so only Koreans in Taekwondo wish to line their pockets based off of these trends. I didn't see any emoticon so I can only assume that you are either a) ignorant or b)I'm just not quick in catching the sarcasm from your post.

Why not expand and get a different demographic of people interested in coming to a TKD tournament?

First, who is offering this new venue and where is it being offered, Well lets just see......Why it's at the 2011 World Championships and prey tell, who is running the show? Now lets all guess........why it's the guys that run TKD from.......what for it!............................Korea!!

Expand and different "demographic" people...............What a quaint way of offering a slick retort to what is actually happening. I understand why and where your coming from on my statement, we've locked horns before, but your rebuttal is bias based and we both know why. We'll just leave it at that...........

 

[ETinCYQX]

Why? It tends to attract new people to the martial arts, who may not have otherwise joined. What people fail to see that this is for entertainment. A good instructor would use this as an advantage to bring in people interested in the flash and the show them the picture of martial arts not just the flash.

I don't know that we need to be actively recruiting. Those who will be the students we want will come without the showy stuff IMO. The flash is not TaeKwonDo or martial arts, it's something else that I don't think helps us.

 

[miguksaram]

First, who is offering this new venue and where is it being offered, Well lets just see......Why it's at the 2011 World Championships and prey tell, who is running the show? Now lets all guess........why it's the guys that run TKD from.......what for it!............................Korea!!

Expand and different "demographic" people...............What a quaint way of offering a slick retort to what is actually happening. I understand why and where your coming from on my statement, we've locked horns before, but your rebuttal is bias based and we both know why. We'll just leave it at that...........

Actually there have been local TKD tournaments ran by non-Koreans that have offered this for a while. I am not sure what the scene is like in Korea, but what I have noticed at the past couple of MAIA shows, there have been an influx on Korean instructors from Korea coming to learn about this type of stuff. So I can only guess that it is being done at their local level as well. The venue is not new...just new to this tournament. So they add a new division and now they are just money grabbing greedy bastards?

I guess they were greedy many years ago when they first started to do Poomsae only tournaments as well? The bottomline is they are seeing a trend happening that they want to include into their event.

BTW...thanks for clearing up my confusion...now I know you are just ignorant.

 

[miguksaram]

I don't know that we need to be actively recruiting. Those who will be the students we want will come without the showy stuff IMO. The flash is not TaeKwonDo or martial arts, it's something else that I don't think helps us.

Do you own a school? If you do then you are always actively recruiting...that is if you want to keep your doors open. Not sure about your area but there are tons of TKD schools around our area. One not too much different than the other. So why should I join School A as opposed to School B? Programs available is the key.

Perhaps you can exlpain to me why it hurts us without using the same old lame excuse of "it's not realistic or street effective".

 

[Disco]

BTW...thanks for clearing up my confusion...now I know you are just ignorant.

Lets see..........I cleared up YOUR CONFUSION and I'm the ignorant one?....:lfao:

Oh, by the way, here's your emoticon.............:moon: