The Legalization of Marijuana

[MissTwisties]

Unfortunatly that is also true. But I believe it is because of squids that our car/bike insurance is at a high cost. I ride a sportbike, not a cruiser. Sportbikes are well reputated for doing high speeds, driving to endanger, stunting, etc...but not all sportbike riders do these things. The highest speed I do on highways is no more than 90 miles an hour (rarely and when there is no traffic), with an average of more or less 75 miles an hour. I ride carefully for many reasons; mom of 2 kids, I value life and I simply ride to enjoy the fresh air/scenery/freedom....not for speed. So yes, it also upset me to know that insurance rates are so high because of people who don't know how to ride/drive.

You're a motorcycle rider, as am I. Everyone pays a little more on their auto insurance to cover our demographic's high levels of medical costs. You take an extra risk by traveling on two wheels, and others get to offset that cost. Living in a society, we all share costs. My son with Asperger's gets more of a slice of the school budget, you might get a small business loan courtesy of my taxes.

I look at addiction as a medical and societal issue. Not a criminal one. Criminalizing only compounds the problem by adding a layer of expense and violence.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

This is nothing personal against "Kid."

But, a cop who is doing his job stops four people and confiscates their pot.
The four people get off with "a slap on the wrist."
What did Kid expect to happen, that the cops are gonna give the pot back?
No, instead he says the "cops stole our stash and smoked it."
Twice, he said the cops "stole" it.

I think that is a ridiculous statement.
It's insulting to all LEO's that I know.
If he seriously believes that, then the pot did more brain damage than he realizes.
If it was meant to be a joke, it went straight over my head.

Peace,
Melissa

Whether you think his post ridiculous or not is beside the point. Attack his reasoning methods, not him personally. Your post called into question his level of intelligence and suggested he was possibly brain damaged.

Your line of reasoning is thus:

"Kid smoked pot.
Kid's allegation towards the LEO's is ridiculous.
Ergo Kid must have brain damaged himself with pot."

Then how am I not correct in following a similar line of flawed logic in arriving at the assumption that you must have brain damaged yourself falling on your head as a child? I do NOT think this is the case. Your logic is merely flawed in that your premises don't support your conclusion. Further your conclusion is debatable given current research into marijuana's impact on cognition.*

Regardless; if I were to argue your reasoning was due to you hitting your head as a child it, would be a personal attack little different from that you directed towards Kid. An ad hominem is an ad hominem. Saying it isn't "personal" doesn't relieve the insult.

Now, you've called me on such behavior before, and correctly. I've appreciated it. Now its your turn.

I would suggest either reconsidering your approach or dropping the "peace" signature with which you end your posts and whose symbol often graces your avatar. To attack "Kid" in this manner with such an icon and phrase representing you seems hypocritical.

Regards,


Steve


*Further your conclusion is debatable given current research into marijuana's impact on cognition.

 

[shesulsa]

-Mod. Note. -
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-shesulsa
-MT Moderator-

 

[Melissa426]

Kid's allegation towards the LEO's is ridiculous.
Ergo Kid must have brain damaged himself with pot."

Now its your turn.

Do I seriously believe Kid is literally brain damaged? No. Nor do I believe that of anyone else who is a prior or current user (including members of my family) expecially people at MT, none of whom I really know..

Sometimes when I post, a sarcastic response is what enters my brain. Is sarcasm a way to respond respectfully to someone else's post? No.

I hope I have never implied that anyone here is stupid, though I may disagree with them ion certain principle.
What I should has asked was if Kid really truly believed what he said about the cop stealing his marijuana and why he believed that.

If Kid reads this, I would love to hear his opinion and I promise to respond more appropriately and not let my emotions get the best of me, If that is acceptable.

Peace (not to resort to name-calling, insults, and belittling others.... from both sides of the argument)
Melissa

 

[Ray]

Sometimes when I post, a sarcastic response is what enters my brain. Is sarcasm a way to respond respectfully to someone else's post? No....

What I should has asked was if Kid really truly believed what he said about the cop stealing his marijuana and why he believed that.

That was very big of you to post that response.

Personally, I have never seen smoking pot raise anyone's IQ test results.

 

[hardheadjarhead]

MissTwisties in bold:

Against it 100%. That would be like saying to our kids "It is ok to smoke mari because it is legal".

No. We'd be saying "It is legal for adults to use marijuana." Legalizing alcohol in 1933 after the repeal of prohibition in no way told children it was "okay to drink alcohol because it is legal." We do not condone children smoking cigarettes nor driving cars, yet those are legal too.

I am against drugs and I will never tolerate them. Specially not under my roof, ever. My dad started off with pot, then coke, then worse...mixed with being alcoholic. Drugs destroy people, families, children, etc. and should never be legalized.

More specifically; addictions destroy families. My parents, both alcoholics (and my mother a fairly violent one), managed to screw up our household using only alcohol. No cocaine came into play, no meth, no speed or barbituates or any other intoxicant other than tobacco. And it was all perfectly legal.

One can outlaw drugs, but one can not outlaw an addiction...and the addiction will find its way past any law, as we well know. To penalize an addict with prison and then sermonize how drugs ruin lives is contradictory, as the latter act is used to justify the former--and the former (prison) ruins lives.

Not tolerating them under your roof is perfectly acceptable. If your child were facing up to five years imprisonment for possession of an ounce of pot, would you assist the prosecutor in putting him away? As he or she were carted off, would you refrain from a motherly "serves you right?" Or would that not be so motherly?

Drugs destroy people, families, children, etc. and should never be legalized. PERIOD.

But not necessarily so with marijuana. Nor, for that matter, alcohol. Most people who use marijuana outgrow it and move on to never use it again. Most people who drink alcohol drink it all their lives and do so without damage to them or their family...though the addiction rate for alcohol is far greater than marijuana and the social and economic impact far more severe. The facts are clear: Marijuana is simply not as harmful as people attempt to portray it. To include it under an umbrella categorization of "drugs" is an unfair and unreasonable generalization.

People who don't do drugs still have to pay for those who do. When I see my insurance rates go up like a rocket, and I see on my policy that I'm covered for "drug abuse/detox/outpatient substance abuse" it makes me sick to think that part of the premiums we pay every month is because of that bullsh**.

Your insurance rates are raised for a number of reasons, and are computed by actuaries who specialize in that field. If addictions were that great of a hazard, they wouldn't provide coverage at all, most likely.

There shouldn't be any coverage for substance abuse on health insurance policies, it should be paid by the drug addict if he want to go in detox.

As it is now, the uninsured and poor have few resources for treatment. Under your plan the middle class would have fewer treatment options.

You "willfully" (emphasis on the word willfully here) abuse your body and your health? Well other insured people shouldn't have to be forced to pay part of their monthly premiums for substance abuse when they don't even use drugs.

One could say the same for those who don't wear a motorcycle helmet or a seatbelt, or who eat too much salt and fat. If you don't like the policy, you're free to change it in protest, I suppose, and find a cheaper policy that doesn't offer substance abuse treatment.

Regards,


Steve

 

[Flatlander]

Personally, I have never seen smoking pot raise anyone's IQ test results.

Are you suggesting that you've studied this comprehensively?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Melissa in bold:

Do I seriously believe Kid is literally brain damaged? No. Nor do I believe that of anyone else who is a prior or current user (including members of my family) expecially people at MT, none of whom I really know..

Sometimes when I post, a sarcastic response is what enters my brain. Is sarcasm a way to respond respectfully to someone else's post? No.

I hope I have never implied that anyone here is stupid, though I may disagree with them ion certain principle.
What I should has asked was if Kid really truly believed what he said about the cop stealing his marijuana and why he believed that.

If Kid reads this, I would love to hear his opinion and I promise to respond more appropriately and not let my emotions get the best of me, If that is acceptable.

Peace (not to resort to name-calling, insults, and belittling others.... from both sides of the argument)
Melissa


Gracefully put. Kudos for that.




Regards,


Steve

 

[Ray]

Are you suggesting that you've studied this comprehensively?

The statement "Personally, I never seen smoking pot raise anyone's IQ test results" seems simple enough. Did I say "After 30 years of comprehensive study, I have never seen an individual's IQ test result increase due to inhalation of marijuana"?

It was a non-peer reviewed statement. Nevertheless, it is a true statement: I have never seen anyone get smarter from smoking dope.

Do you have credible information that I have seen anyone get more intelligent smoking dope?

Do you have credible information that smoking dope makes people smarter? Do you have credible information that smoking dope doesn't?

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Ray in bold:

Personally, I have never seen smoking pot raise anyone's IQ test results.

Harrison Pope hasn't seen it hurt it, either:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html

Note Pope also says that reports indicate that users report a negative social effect from using. This could lead to so many users walking away from the drug after a period of regular use.

The results of the studies are mixed.


Regards,


Steve

 

[kid]

Honestly none of us truly beleived they had stolen it and smoked it themselves. That was actually brough up in a latter pot smoking session whith my pals and we were all rolling on the floor in laughter. We actually thout a few differnt thing and i think hard head even mentioned a few thaat seem very likly to have happend. I personaly think the driver ratted someone out. Never did trust that one, seemed shady. It may not be funny for you but if you ever get stoned you will know what i'm talkin about. And for all tthe younger people reading this thread if you decide to use any mind altering chemicals may it be coffee, marijuana, or alcohol, always use in moderation and don't do dumb things like drive all messed up. other than that have fun. You know what i dont understand though is why all you people that are opposed to legalize mj want to take away rights that our fore fathers faught and gave their lives for. These family members of yours that smoke doobies, are they still accepted as people in your family or do they hang out in the basement cause people like you shame them into thinking they don't belong? Are they the ones that the whole family gossips about when they aren't their? Are they the ones who the rest of the family thinks needs help cause he/she is differnt? Get a hold of yourself and treat them like you want to be treated and don't put them below you it will cause more rebellion. These are the things that rune families. Causes distress throughout the wholw family and its also a sign of weakness. the chain is only as strong as the weakest link. (refaining from sayng "You are.... theweakestlink goodby" didn't work)I'm getting off that. marijuana is not that bad. mean people are bad. how can something that feels good be bad when its not endagering others? how can mean people be good when the talk smack to someonthey don't know?

Just a few questions i have.

Shouldn't knock it if you havn't done it. That goes for everyone even me.

 

[Cryozombie]

Not for or Against, just adding some Info:

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html

Scientists have learned a great deal about how THC acts in the brain to produce its many effects. When someone smokes marijuana, THC rapidly passes from the lungs into the bloodstream, which carries the chemical to organs throughout the body, including the brain.

In the brain, THC connects to specific sites called cannabinoid receptors on nerve cells and influences the activity of those cells. Some brain areas have many cannabinoid receptors; others have few or none. Many cannabinoid receptors are found in the parts of the brain that influence pleasure, memory, thought, concentration, sensory and time perception, and coordinated movement(5).

The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana use indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term use of other major drugs of abuse. For example, cannabinoid (THC or synthetic forms of THC) withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system(6) and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine(7). Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.

Effects on the Heart

One study has indicated that a user’s risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana(8). The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana’s effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.

Effects on the Lungs

A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers(9). Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.

Other Health Effects

Some of marijuana’s adverse health effects may occur because THC impairs the immune system’s ability to fight off infectious diseases and cancer. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited(16). In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors(17, 18).

I need some Vodka.

 

[kid]

use in moderation.

 

[Ray]

use in moderation.

Ahaha...oh wait...you're serious?

 

[kid]

Ahaha...oh wait...you're serious?

Think about it.

 

[Rynocerous]

Ahaha...oh wait...you're serious?

You laugh at someone who is willing to use a substance in moderation? I say Kudos KID,it is better than people using it all the time. Or is your outlook based on if your going to do something, do it right? Is there a problem with people drinking in moderation? Wait, no it's legal...We could do that in moderation.

The problem isn't people that use in moderation, it is the people that abuse the substace. Be it booze, smokes, weed, acid, huffing gas, or whatever. If a person is in conrol let him/her do what they want.

Cheers,

Rynocerous

 

[Darksoul]

-You know, a very good friend of mine dated a guy a few years ago who said the same thing about drugs harder than pot. Don't knock it till you try it. Well she tried a few different things and landed in some trouble because of it. Who knows how they'll react on any drug, let alone pot. I have another friend who has a chemical imbalance in his brain, he smoked pot on Halloween one year and went crazy for a few hours. Friends had to chase him down just to keep him from hurting himself. I don't need to try pot to understand it. I don't need to understand it to know that, as I've said before, this country isn't mature enough to make it legal. If you can smoke it, and still live a productive life, without screwing up anybodyelse's, hooray for you. Though I would still say you would be better off to spend your time and money on other things.


A---)

 

[Rynocerous]

If you can smoke it, and still live a productive life, without screwing up anybodyelse's, hooray for you. Though I would still say you would be better off to spend your time and money on other things.

You are free to say that, but I am free to live my life anyway I like, and really don't need lectures from anyone on how to live my life. I have terrible back pains from a boched jump in the army, and the only thing that truly relieves my pain is marijuana used in moderation. One little puff a night and I am able to sleep without waking up ten times a night in pain. I don't know what you think, but I deem that an excellent thing to spend my time and money on.

Sincerely,

Ryan

 

[Melissa426]

. Are they the ones that the whole family gossips about when they aren't their?

No, but since you ask ( and this is only minimally pertinent to the conversation) we talk about my wicked witch of a step-mother who lives with my father in the Aloha state.
This same stepmother was arrested for driving under the influence of marijuana ,on a military base. My father's employer, the US Army, did not look kindly on this incident. He was a Lt Col at that time, retired a full Colonel.

Come to think of it, I'd probably like her better if she stayed stoned.
OK, I change my mind. Make it legal.

Peace,
Melissa

 

[Cryozombie]

You are free to say that, but I am free to live my life anyway I like, and really don't need lectures from anyone on how to live my life. I have terrible back pains from a boched jump in the army, and the only thing that truly relieves my pain is marijuana used in moderation. One little puff a night and I am able to sleep without waking up ten times a night in pain. I don't know what you think, but I deem that an excellent thing to spend my time and money on.

Sincerely,

Ryan

Ah, c'mon man... thats what Prescription Narcotics are for...

Cuz, ya know, they must be safer...