The Jian

[Xue Sheng]

The jain

History of the Jain

Jian

Gao Jain - Spring and Autumn Period (second half of the 8th century BC to the first half of the 5th century BC) found in 1965 in Hubei

Qing Dynasty Jain (1644 to 1912)

Iron Jian

 

[Omar B]

Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.

Nope I would not put that in the Chinese Swords and Sword Arts section

This is the Chinese straight sword know as the Jian

 

[jarrod]

very cool! i've always been interested in chinese sword arts. i sort of wish it was more common to be able to train chinese sword without learning empty hand kung fu. not that there's anything wrong with kung fu, i just already have an empty hand skill set.

jf

 

[bowser666]

I would be interested to learn the history behind the tassle on the sword as well. I have come across some info that states that the tassle is more of a modern affection used for visual purposes and aesthetics. That it has no practical wartime value. I.E. it is not a used to distract your enemy, or wipe the blood etc........ That it was a slow transition from lanyard type loop that would help the warrior hold onto his sword in a battle in case his hands got sweaty etc.... If you could find anymore information I would be grateful.

 

[arnisador]

This topic of the tassle interests me too! When I briefly studied Tai Chi, I got the "distraction" answer.

 

[clfsean]

Tassle = lanyard type device functionally (read that once) ...

 

[jks9199]

Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.

So... did you read any of the thread before posting this? Or did you just figure that your insight into something completely off topic was vital to the thread?

 

[blindsage]

My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

 

[Xue Sheng]

My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

You will find it in Xingyiquan as well...but then you can find s lot of weapons in Xingyiquan.

 

[clfsean]

My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

Wah Lum
Most of the other Mantids
Buk Siu Lum
My Jhong Law Horn
Choy Li Fut
Lama Pai
Ying Jow Pai

I'm sure there's others, but those are the ones that come to mind.

 

[blindsage]

I should have guessed CLF. You guys do so many weapons I think I saw a guy doing a running shoe weapon form once.

 

[Flying Crane]

Wah Lum
Most of the other Mantids
Buk Siu Lum
My Jhong Law Horn
Choy Li Fut
Lama Pai
Ying Jow Pai

I'm sure there's others, but those are the ones that come to mind.

a couple more:
Bak Hok (already sort of hit it with Lama Pai)
Shaolin

given its difficulty, it may be that not everyone learns it nowadays and it may get dropped from some schools curriculum because of this. But I suspect it is/was just as widespread as many of the other weapons.

I think a lot of weapons sort of get traded and borrowed from one system to another. I think it's possible to find some very similar weapons forms in different systems. It is my suspicion that this happens because people want to have a sort of "complete" set of information and material, including proficiency with the various weapons, particularly back in the day when these weapons had more relevance in the every day life or on the battlefield. So even if the original system didn't have a perticular weapon, at some point someone learned it elsewhere and brought it in.

 

[Flying Crane]

I would be interested to learn the history behind the tassle on the sword as well. I have come across some info that states that the tassle is more of a modern affection used for visual purposes and aesthetics. That it has no practical wartime value. I.E. it is not a used to distract your enemy, or wipe the blood etc........ That it was a slow transition from lanyard type loop that would help the warrior hold onto his sword in a battle in case his hands got sweaty etc.... If you could find anymore information I would be grateful.

One thing that I have heard is that the tassle would actually be made of brass or lead weights, and might also have small blades or hooks hidden in it. In this way it could be whipped around as a secondary weapon.

The problem is, this could backfire, especially with blades or hooks, you could injure yourself.

I don't know if this is historically accurate, but it's one thing I've heard.

I find the tassle cumbersome, and I don't have one on my pieces.

If the tassle does in fact have historical relevance, it may also depend on the type of jian. A lighter jian was carried by the upper class civilians, and could be used for personal self defense. A heavier jian would be carried by a soldier, who needed a more robust weapon to withstand the rigors and battering of the battlefield, not to mention the need to defeat armor. It's possible that the tassle, if it was ever truly relevant, may have been limited to the civilian weapons and not the military weapons.

just some thoughts on the matter

 

[Xue Sheng]

There is one heck of a lot of detail in the Yang jian form that most people never know or learn. It is historically a much harder weapon to be proficient with in real combat than a dao. It was also not used anywhere near as much as the dao for fighting as well

 

[clfsean]

I should have guessed CLF. You guys do so many weapons I think I saw a guy doing a running shoe weapon form once.

No because if you saw that, we'd have to kill you. It's not for public consumption.

 

[clfsean]

There is one heck of a lot of detail in the Yang jian form that most people never know or learn. It is historically a much harder weapon to be proficient with in real combat than a dao. It was also not used anywhere near as much as the dao for fighting as well

Y'know the old addage for number of days to master a weapon... let's look at that...

100 to master the knife (dao)
10,000 to master the sword (gim)

Kinda gives perspective...

 

[UNYMA]

Does anyone have any good recommendations as to a decent training gim? I've looked at virtually every shop on the web and most seem to carry the same things. Trouble is there is nowhere near me that I can actually handle one to see how it feels. With my other weapons I prefer slightly heavier as opposed to lighter (kind of forces me to use better mechanics) but from what little I know of the gim this may not be helpful. All ideas welcome.

 

[bowser666]

My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

From my limited understanding I thought Jian was considered one of the 4 fundamental weapons of any Kung Fu style ( Northern Styles perhaps) Gun(Staff/Cudgel), Dao , Jian, Spear. So it may be a safe bet to say that all Northern styles , Tai chi, I study Yang Style Tai Chi, not advanced enough yet for the sword form though. I mostly practice the Traditional Short form , and the Long form. That stuff is hard !!!

 

[clfsean]

Does anyone have any good recommendations as to a decent training gim? I've looked at virtually every shop on the web and most seem to carry the same things. Trouble is there is nowhere near me that I can actually handle one to see how it feels. With my other weapons I prefer slightly heavier as opposed to lighter (kind of forces me to use better mechanics) but from what little I know of the gim this may not be helpful. All ideas welcome.

I like & use the Adam Hsu Gim.

I'm at work otherwise I'd link one for you, but the firewall here is "troublesome" to say the least.

I'll post a link later.