The Jian

Omar B

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
87
Location
Queens, NY. Fort Lauderdale, FL
Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,230
Reaction score
9,314
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.

Nope I would not put that in the Chinese Swords and Sword Arts section

This is the Chinese straight sword know as the Jian
 

jarrod

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
2,172
Reaction score
96
Location
Denver
very cool! i've always been interested in chinese sword arts. i sort of wish it was more common to be able to train chinese sword without learning empty hand kung fu. not that there's anything wrong with kung fu, i just already have an empty hand skill set.

jf
 

bowser666

2nd Black Belt
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
751
Reaction score
26
I would be interested to learn the history behind the tassle on the sword as well. I have come across some info that states that the tassle is more of a modern affection used for visual purposes and aesthetics. That it has no practical wartime value. I.E. it is not a used to distract your enemy, or wipe the blood etc........ That it was a slow transition from lanyard type loop that would help the warrior hold onto his sword in a battle in case his hands got sweaty etc.... If you could find anymore information I would be grateful.
 

arnisador

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
44,573
Reaction score
456
Location
Terre Haute, IN
This topic of the tassle interests me too! When I briefly studied Tai Chi, I got the "distraction" answer.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,459
Reaction score
3,774
Location
Northern VA
Oh, I thought this topic was about the Eric Van Lustbadder book of the same name. Damn that guy sucks. His "Ninja" series didnt get good till the third book, he ruined the Bourne franchise (why the hell would Ludlum's family hand the character off to that hack?).

He does write a good fight scene though, he's an aikido guy I think.
So... did you read any of the thread before posting this? Or did you just figure that your insight into something completely off topic was vital to the thread?
 

blindsage

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
112
Location
Sacramento, CA
My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,230
Reaction score
9,314
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

You will find it in Xingyiquan as well...but then you can find s lot of weapons in Xingyiquan.
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
400
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

Wah Lum
Most of the other Mantids
Buk Siu Lum
My Jhong Law Horn
Choy Li Fut
Lama Pai
Ying Jow Pai

I'm sure there's others, but those are the ones that come to mind.
 

blindsage

Master of Arts
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,580
Reaction score
112
Location
Sacramento, CA
I should have guessed CLF. You guys do so many weapons I think I saw a guy doing a running shoe weapon form once. ;)
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,218
Reaction score
4,890
Location
San Francisco
Wah Lum
Most of the other Mantids
Buk Siu Lum
My Jhong Law Horn
Choy Li Fut
Lama Pai
Ying Jow Pai

I'm sure there's others, but those are the ones that come to mind.


a couple more:
Bak Hok (already sort of hit it with Lama Pai)
Shaolin

given its difficulty, it may be that not everyone learns it nowadays and it may get dropped from some schools curriculum because of this. But I suspect it is/was just as widespread as many of the other weapons.

I think a lot of weapons sort of get traded and borrowed from one system to another. I think it's possible to find some very similar weapons forms in different systems. It is my suspicion that this happens because people want to have a sort of "complete" set of information and material, including proficiency with the various weapons, particularly back in the day when these weapons had more relevance in the every day life or on the battlefield. So even if the original system didn't have a perticular weapon, at some point someone learned it elsewhere and brought it in.
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,218
Reaction score
4,890
Location
San Francisco
I would be interested to learn the history behind the tassle on the sword as well. I have come across some info that states that the tassle is more of a modern affection used for visual purposes and aesthetics. That it has no practical wartime value. I.E. it is not a used to distract your enemy, or wipe the blood etc........ That it was a slow transition from lanyard type loop that would help the warrior hold onto his sword in a battle in case his hands got sweaty etc.... If you could find anymore information I would be grateful.


One thing that I have heard is that the tassle would actually be made of brass or lead weights, and might also have small blades or hooks hidden in it. In this way it could be whipped around as a secondary weapon.

The problem is, this could backfire, especially with blades or hooks, you could injure yourself.

I don't know if this is historically accurate, but it's one thing I've heard.

I find the tassle cumbersome, and I don't have one on my pieces.

If the tassle does in fact have historical relevance, it may also depend on the type of jian. A lighter jian was carried by the upper class civilians, and could be used for personal self defense. A heavier jian would be carried by a soldier, who needed a more robust weapon to withstand the rigors and battering of the battlefield, not to mention the need to defeat armor. It's possible that the tassle, if it was ever truly relevant, may have been limited to the civilian weapons and not the military weapons.

just some thoughts on the matter
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,230
Reaction score
9,314
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
There is one heck of a lot of detail in the Yang jian form that most people never know or learn. It is historically a much harder weapon to be proficient with in real combat than a dao. It was also not used anywhere near as much as the dao for fighting as well
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
400
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
There is one heck of a lot of detail in the Yang jian form that most people never know or learn. It is historically a much harder weapon to be proficient with in real combat than a dao. It was also not used anywhere near as much as the dao for fighting as well

Y'know the old addage for number of days to master a weapon... let's look at that...

100 to master the knife (dao)
10,000 to master the sword (gim)

Kinda gives perspective...
 

UNYMA

White Belt
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Location
Upstate, NY
Does anyone have any good recommendations as to a decent training gim? I've looked at virtually every shop on the web and most seem to carry the same things. Trouble is there is nowhere near me that I can actually handle one to see how it feels. With my other weapons I prefer slightly heavier as opposed to lighter (kind of forces me to use better mechanics) but from what little I know of the gim this may not be helpful. All ideas welcome.
 

bowser666

2nd Black Belt
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
751
Reaction score
26
My Bagua sifu (who teaches Yang and Chen Taiji as well) says the tassle is modern and for show. He teaches with no tassle.

On another note, what other styles teach Jian? I hear it's a popular weapon and Xue's links above claim a lot of style use it, but I don't see it outside of Taiji and Bagua. There's always a picture of a Taiji practioner when it's shown.

From my limited understanding I thought Jian was considered one of the 4 fundamental weapons of any Kung Fu style ( Northern Styles perhaps) Gun(Staff/Cudgel), Dao , Jian, Spear. So it may be a safe bet to say that all Northern styles , Tai chi, I study Yang Style Tai Chi, not advanced enough yet for the sword form though. I mostly practice the Traditional Short form , and the Long form. That stuff is hard !!!
 

clfsean

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
3,687
Reaction score
400
Location
Metropolitan Tokyo
Does anyone have any good recommendations as to a decent training gim? I've looked at virtually every shop on the web and most seem to carry the same things. Trouble is there is nowhere near me that I can actually handle one to see how it feels. With my other weapons I prefer slightly heavier as opposed to lighter (kind of forces me to use better mechanics) but from what little I know of the gim this may not be helpful. All ideas welcome.

I like & use the Adam Hsu Gim.

I'm at work otherwise I'd link one for you, but the firewall here is "troublesome" to say the least.

I'll post a link later.
 

Latest Discussions

Top