The Blame Game

[arnisador]

FEMA has re-hired Michael Brown as a consultant to review the response to Hurricane Katrina.

Sigh...I guess I shoulda expected this.

 

[shesulsa]

I

FEMA has re-hired Michael Brown as a consultant to review the response to Hurricane Katrina.

I'm ... speechless.

 

[arnisador]

Good news: Consultant Michael Brown has already completed his analysis:
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Hurricane_Katrina/

Brown Blames 'Dysfunctional' Louisiana

WASHINGTON - Former FEMA director Michael Brown aggressively defended his role in responding to Hurricane Katrina on Tuesday and blamed most coordination failures on Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin.

Well, now we know.

 

[shesulsa]

Looks like he at least responded to THIS disaster quickly ... :shrug:

 

[michaeledward]

This in from Knight Ridder today.

No evidence backs up reports of rescue helicopters being fired upon

NEW ORLEANS - Among the rumors that spread as quickly as floodwaters after Hurricane Katrina, reports that gunmen were taking potshots at rescue helicopters stood out for their senselessness.



On Sept. 1, as patients sweltered in hospitals without power and thousands of people remained stranded on rooftops and in attics, crucial rescue efforts were delayed as word of such attacks spread.



But more than a month later, representatives from the Air Force, Coast Guard, Department of Homeland Security and Louisiana Air National Guard say they have yet to confirm a single incident of gunfire at helicopters.

Likewise, members of several rescue crews who were told to halt operations say there is no evidence they were under fire.

More here:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/12801034.htm

 

[Tgace]

But so many rumors were swirling that the facts still haven't been sorted out. A picture is emerging of heroic but harried rescue workers from dozens of organizations forced to make snap decisions with only slender threads of information and no reliable communications.


The storm created so much confusion that government officials cannot even agree on whether they ever issued an order to halt flights or other rescue efforts.


Sometimes the mere rumor that they had was enough.

Exact same phenomena known as "the fog of war".......

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Exact same phenomena known as "the fog of war".......

So true. Anyone who's ever been involved in a SAR (Search and Rescue) case KNOWS that initial reports are often EXTREMELY inaccurate. Were gunshots from individuals SIGNALLING SRU's (Search and Rescue Units), or individuals firing upon them? Pretty darn hard to tell from the sky.

Still, the media really hyped this "New Orlean is out of control" issue. I bet that for every troublemaker, there were a dozen or more orderly and law-abiding citizens queing up responsibly for assistance.

Unfortunately, citizens lining up peacefully for aid isn't sensational enough to make headlines.

Also, the rescuers are heros, in my book. It's hard to see that many of them would have been deterred (unless ordered) by a few gunshots.

 

[michaeledward]

I bet that for every troublemaker, there were a dozen or more orderly and law-abiding citizens queing up responsibly for assistance.

Oh. Do you really think 'a dozen or more' were orderly for every troublemaker.

I'm not sure that sentence can convey enough sarcasm. I'm not sure if that statement is intented to be bigotted or arrogant or rasict or none of these. But, it certainly doesn't seem very thought out.

With an anticipated 20% of the population of New Orleans unable to evacuate, as many as 100,000 people may have been in the city during and after the hurricane. By your math, that would mean approaching 7,690 "troublemakers".

Assuming you are looking at people causing actual trouble, and not just people trying to survive when their government has completely shut down, I think it is hard to justify that number without many more violent incidents than have been verified. Especially when you consider how many of those initial reports are now being shown to be rumor and speculation.

'a dozen or more'.

Please

 

[Sapper6]

it was a figure of speech michael. stop blowing what he said out of proportion. i think what jonathan was trying to say is that the media just didn't give enough attention to the GOOD that was going on down there, performed by citizens and rescuers, and for every "troublemaker" there were even more "good-dooers".

 

[michaeledward]

it was a figure of speech michael. stop blowing what he said out of proportion. i think what jonathan was trying to say is that the media just didn't give enough attention to the GOOD that was going on down there, performed by citizens and rescuers, and for every "troublemaker" there were even more "good-dooers".

Well, it is no figure of speech that I have heard before.

And I am not going to project what I "think he was trying to say" over what he actually said. Somewhere, someone once said "words mean things".

So, you are going to 'Blame the Media' for what went wrong after Hurricane Katrina because they "didn't bring enough attention to the GOOD". You know, it is not news if a dog bites a man .... but it is news if a man bites a dog. The job of 'the media' is to report the news.

 

[arnisador]

The search for bodies has ended in N.O.; the official toll stands at 972:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051004/ap_on_re_us/new_orleans

 

[Tgace]

Didnt know that computers and large screen televisions were necessary items needed to "survive when the government shut down".....

 

[mantis]

i just love it dude..
looks like all politicians (or at least those under attack) gather and find one answer or one sentence that contains a couple of keywords to say
it amazed me that they all said the phrase "we're not playing the blame game" so many times in one day...
ridiculous
i coulda sworn there's someone who gives them a couple of key words and say "make sure you always say those" lol
like me going to a job interview!

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Oh. Do you really think 'a dozen or more' were orderly for every troublemaker.

With an anticipated 20% of the population of New Orleans unable to evacuate, as many as 100,000 people may have been in the city during and after the hurricane. By your math, that would mean approaching 7,690 "troublemakers".

Assuming you are looking at people causing actual trouble, and not just people trying to survive when their government has completely shut down, I think it is hard to justify that number without many more violent incidents than have been verified. Especially when you consider how many of those initial reports are now being shown to be rumor and speculation.

'a dozen or more'.

Please

Ok, you got me. I should have said hundreds, or even thousands. My point remains the same, which I felt was clear - the reports of widespread crime and anarchy were exagerated if not outright incorrect. Please give me the benefit of the doubt and consider that I may have inadvertently misspoke. Refer to my previous posts on the subject wherein I slammed the slow Federal (as well as local) response to Katrina.

I'm not sure that sentence can convey enough sarcasm. I'm not sure if that statement is intented to be bigotted or arrogant or rasict or none of these. But, it certainly doesn't seem very thought out.

Ok, not well thought out; I did not mean at that proportion - but you've read and responded to enough of my posts on MT to know that I am not racist and that I have great sympathy for the victims of Katrina and substantial outrage over the tremendously flawed response. Before jumping to conclusions regarding a person's possible bigotry, arrogance or racism, you need to consider that person's body of work (average posts) and consider first if such charges are consistent with their character and personality. If such charges are not evident in their writings, and in my case they are not, it is best to consider that the person may have spoken, or typed, in error and that said racism may simply be a miscommunication.

And I am not going to project what I "think he was trying to say" over what he actually said. Somewhere, someone once said "words mean things".

This is where judgement comes in. CONTEXT. The sentence before I mistakenly said dozen (instead of hundreds or thousands) was this one:

"Still, the media really hyped this "New Orlean is out of control" issue."

Finally, according to Martial Talk I am now A SPLENDID ONE TO BEHOLD! A title which is incompatible with racism:
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27212

In the future, please bear in mind my new status as a SPLENDID ONE TO BEHOLD, before making accusations (Humour!).

 

[michaeledward]

Finally, according to Martial Talk I am now A SPLENDID ONE TO BEHOLD! A title which is incompatible with racism:
http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27212

In the future, please bear in mind my new status as a SPLENDID ONE TO BEHOLD, before making accusations (Humour!).

I like that. Props to you.

Jonathan Randall, please don't take this the wrong way, but I can not compare the referenced posting to your body of posts here on martialtalk, because I do not recall reading other posts of yours. I am certain that I have. But, they did not make the impression on me that identified the thoughts with your signature.

Now, there are some that I agree with greatly whom I do remember their body of work, concerning posts. And there are those with whom I disagree, and thus, remember their body of work, here on MartialTalk. But many, perhaps the majority, are indistiguishable to me based on their posts.

I suppose that is a weakness, to which I should turn my attention. I will try to do better in this endeavor in the future.

 

[arnisador]

Meanwhile, people are being encouraged to return to the affected areas:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/hurricane_katrina

I see the logic, and I know some businesses are having trouble finding workers. I know that there is real concern that many physicians and other health professionals will simply not return. Yet, I wonder if N.O., for example, is really ready to support a mass return of citizens, especially with all the mold-infected houses. Where will these people live?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Meanwhile, people are being encouraged to return to the affected areas:

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/hurricane_katrina

I see the logic, and I know some businesses are having trouble finding workers. I know that there is real concern that many physicians and other health professionals will simply not return. Yet, I wonder if N.O., for example, is really ready to support a mass return of citizens, especially with all the mold-infected houses. Where will these people live?

Good question. Will the damaged infrastructure support large numbers of returning citizens? Will the levees be repaired enough and steps taken to help prevent a second flood - seeing as climatologists are saying that we are at the beginning of a thirty year cycle of more intense hurricanes?

My sympathy for those people only increases as the days go by. So many disposessed. On a happy note, two of my friends (a couple) just donated a small inheritance to New Orleans relief. Their funds filled a semi of relief supplies - including Pet Food!!! as well as clothes, shoes, and other essential items the relief workers had on their list.

 

[michaeledward]

President Bush is on what someone reported as his 8th trip to the area affected by Hurricane Katrian and Hurricane Rita.

While I suppose this is a bit better than his 8th trip to Crawford in that time, and perhaps a bit better than camping out in Cheyanne Mountain (Northern Command), it does seem a bit ... photo-opy?

And, I don't even mind the 'photo-opy' nature of the visit (there is literally a photograph of the President rolling up his sleeves), but wouldn't it be nice to see the President actually meeting with some of the displaced citizens. To be sure, the 9th Ward did not, as a rule, vote for the guy ... but he's their President too.

And didn't the President say that 'Christ' was his favorite philosopher? What about, 'Whatsoever you do, to the least of my brothers' bit. Isn't now the time to do to the least? Or at a very minimum, to have a picture taken looking like you are doing to the least?

 

[sgtmac_46]

President Bush is on what someone reported as his 8th trip to the area affected by Hurricane Katrian and Hurricane Rita.

While I suppose this is a bit better than his 8th trip to Crawford in that time, and perhaps a bit better than camping out in Cheyanne Mountain (Northern Command), it does seem a bit ... photo-opy?

And, I don't even mind the 'photo-opy' nature of the visit (there is literally a photograph of the President rolling up his sleeves), but wouldn't it be nice to see the President actually meeting with some of the displaced citizens. To be sure, the 9th Ward did not, as a rule, vote for the guy ... but he's their President too.

And didn't the President say that 'Christ' was his favorite philosopher? What about, 'Whatsoever you do, to the least of my brothers' bit. Isn't now the time to do to the least? Or at a very minimum, to have a picture taken looking like you are doing to the least?

Be honest...Is there anything short of suicide or resignation that the man could do that you wouldn't complain about or find fault with?

 

[michaeledward]

Be honest...Is there anything short of suicide or resignation that the man could do that you wouldn't complain about or find fault with?

Look for my post about the President's trip to Iraq; Thanksgiving two years ago.

Now it's your turn ...

Are 8 trips to the stricken area, (how many visits to the Astrodome?) over-doing it a bit?

Is there anything this President does that you can recognize as politically movtivated ... and not good for the country?

How long did it take those eight heavy-lift helicopters to get to Pakistan?