The Bible does not condemn self defense

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Spirituality in the Arts' started by PhotonGuy, Jun 4, 2015.

  1. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    I don't know if I would call Jesus' actions arguing. It may sometimes be a fine point, but in my understanding, He was pointing out the correctness of the Old Testament scriptures versus some of the religious practices of the day. Mind you, that is from my belief that Jesus was not only man, but God man and very God. The way I as a Christian see it, even in the temple incident, His was a righteous anger, that is, against sin.
     
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  2. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Did you mean Maccabees instead of Macclesfield? I doubt Jesus considered the apocrypha as inspired or scripture. Jews have never considered the apocrypha anything but historical to my knowledge. Tez3 can correct me if I am wrong. The only major christian religion I know of that accepts the apocrypha as inspired scripture is the Catholic Church. Although you can now find some later 'protestant' English version bibles with the apocrypha (and if fact the KJV had it originally, I don't think any have yet declared it inspired scripture. But latter additions is a whole different topic. The KJV translators, as well as earlier translations in English, placed the entire apocrypha between the Old and New Testaments. It was considered interesting history and commentary on the times after the writing ot the last inspired book of the Old Testament, but not inspired writing of God. As to taking any one message, or at least any one verse out of its context for teaching doctrine is often problematic. The saying is that any verse taken out of context is pretext.

    As to a need to defend self-defense, I can only guess the OP, sincerely or not, was trying to start a discussion on the morality of fighting in defense of oneself. The morality or legality of using MA is something we do sometimes debate here in MT.

    BTW, if you haven't been to the meet and greet section yet, welcome to MT.

    EDIT: I did add a couple of things above is someone has read the original and wondered what happened. Hope I haven't confused anyone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2015
  3. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    He may well have been pointing out what he thought was right but so would everyone else! It would have been considered that it was his opinion and many others would have had theirs. Even at that time although there was an 'orthodoxy' there were still many different groups of Jews who believed in doing things differently, Jesus would have been regarded as just being in another one of those groups. Easy to see I suppose the Sanhedrin view that so many people disagreeing with them and each other was a pain. Human nature to think that ones view is the right one.
    Sorry I can't write much more at the moment, I'm off this afternoon for the weekend to a Girl Guide leaders weekend. I'll write more when I'm back on Sunday, ( I know I know, so opinionated lol) Have a good weekend everyone! xx
     
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  4. Oldbear343

    Oldbear343 Orange Belt

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    Macclesfield should have read Maccabees - sorry ☺
     
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  5. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    Jesus may have been so regarded, but He sure made the Sanhedrin angry most if not all the time. They wanted him dead.

    Anyway, hope you and your girls have a safe and fun outing.

    Not a problem. We all get distracted at times. Worse, I sometimes think just a little bit faster than my fingers type and find myself typing letters for what I am thinking instead of what I thought. Oh the embarrassment sometimes. :)
     
  6. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    I know that feeling! I usually try to read my posts carefully just before posting because I have times where I have made that mistake and sometimes almost made that mistake but corrected it
     
  7. Oldbear343

    Oldbear343 Orange Belt

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    Thanks for the welcome :)
     
  8. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Maybe when it come to arts that were founded in Asia its better to get a grip on the religions and philosophies used by that particular country. Not wishing to be offensive and just using a particular race as an example but a jew doing budo is well, "A jew doing Budo". You have your own values to deal with doing something that is probably not even from your country and that identified with another religion in the first place. Ethics are defines by codes of behavior whereas morals are defined by character. Neither one requires religion.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    With a very few exceptions -- I can't think of too many arts that are very strongly linked with a religions. Yes, an understanding of Zen Buddhism and Shintoism and their interaction in Japan's philosophy may help you understand some things about why karate or a koryu art is taught a certain way, but I don't quite see how they're directly shaping an individual's practice of the art. Knowing that the Pagan and Pyu monks revered life helps me understand why the stick systems that were recorded from them select certain targets and tactics -- but that doesn't mean I have to practice their religion to apply those same techniques and tactics.
     
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  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    He seemed pretty reasonable. His biggest concern was a possible invasion by the Duke of Jupiter.
    One of the Jesus' tried to cast out demons from all of us.
     
  11. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Personally I received instruction relating to Confucianism and Buddhism after practice. Writing about arts from Asia its difficult to get away from it looking at the deeper meaning of what is taught and its values pertaining to life and death and the attitudes that we should foster.
     
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  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    You only have what it says in the New Testament I'm afraid rather than a general history of Palestine/Judea as it was then, there were numerous people the Jewish authorities didn't want rocking the boat with the Romans who might after all if they go annoyed decide to take it out on the Jewish people, retribution could be nasty so of course they wanted rid of trouble makers. There could be thousands of lives at stake so why would they put up with a few troublemakers, the greater good has to be thought of. A couple of other troublers/messiahs have been named, Simon of Peraea and Athronges


    It was a good training weekend, we covered a lot of things that could equally be relevant in martial arts, teamwork, respect, how to bring the best out of fellow leaders and the girls, lots of stuff to work on.
     
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  13. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Thought I'd just cheer your Monday up with a pic of where I spent the weekend lol. Waddow Hall in Lancashire.
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of course though all the words we are using are English. You are talking three different languages here so there will be nuances that don't translate into English so we can't say there is any difference.
     
  15. Hyoho

    Hyoho Black Belt

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    Well one thing for sure if anything is translated into English the meaning can and will be totally changed It's one of the most bastardized languages in the world with enumerable meanings and connotations:

    • Moshe (Moses) and the Prophets did not write in English (Biblical Hebrew).
    • “Homer” and Plato did not write in English (Hellenistic Greek).
    • Virgil, Ovid and Julius Caesar did not write in English (Classical Latin).
    • Paul and the Evangelists did not write in English (Koine Greek).
    • “Krishna” and Patanjali did not write in English (Sanscrit).
    • “Lao-Tsu,” Sun-Tsu, Chuang-Tsu and “Chang San-Feng” did not write in English (Classical Chinese).
    • Musashi, Takuan and Yamamoto did not write in English (Medieval Japanese).
     
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  16. donald1

    donald1 Senior Master

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    Did you go inside? Did you sleep in one of the beds?! :) I mean i know if I went inside that would be one of the questions id ask (definatly not one of the first few questions I would ask but certainly among them)
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  17. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yes we were inside (my room was on the top floor), we ate there too, it's a Girl Guide house (we have other houses around the UK and World Girl Guiding has houses in Switzerland, Mexico, London and India we can go to World Centres has been since 1927. There's fields around for camping as well as activities like canoeing, assault courses, raft building and hiking. It was a training weekend for Guiders. Non Guiding people can stay there too.
    Home
     
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  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    View from my window.
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice place. I absolutely adore the architecture in Europe.

    Here's one of the places Sue and I stayed when we were in England last.
    Amberley Pano 01.jpg

    We were married on the battlements, above the portcullis.
     
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  20. oftheherd1

    oftheherd1 Senior Master

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    But then as a Christian that is all I believe I need.

    In the New Testament, Jesus is not recorded as 'rocking the boat with the Romans,' but only with the Jewish people, who He was first sent to save. I don't see how that would have been a problem for the Romans, nor therefore, a fear for the Jewish leaders.

    You are correct that I hadn't heard of Simon of Peraea or Athronges. All I can go on is a quick check of Wikipedia. From that I see that they seem to have believed the messiah would be a king on earth right away, and messiah or not, and they intended to be rulers. The New Testament tells us Jesus made it quite clear that wasn't what He came to do then, nor how He acted. He was quite clear that His Kingdom was not of that place and time.

    Glad all Girl Guides enjoyed themselves. It certainly looks like a picturesque area.123
     

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