Testing

[Rainman]

Testing has its place. Some people use it as something to remember, others view it as a right of passage. Basically testing and ranking was an attempt to standardize skill and knowledge. That is the idea of having an association and a board of blackbelts present for brown and above. Having a well respected instructor sign his name to the diploma/certificate was to remove doubt about the students ability. No top instructor worth his salt would marginalize his reputation buy endorsing a rank that was not agreed upon by the board.

As far as the reality of this well... Doug, Seig, Mr.C, I agree with all of you. How does this happen? I would venture to say issues of trust, loyalty, and character demonstrated by yourself to a top instructor will get you what you need. The trick is finding the guy that best works with your personality. For me I'm a die hard AK'er (American Kenpo Player) my teacher is world class. I also enjoy my talks with Mr.C and Dr. Chapel- they are great guys and are 2 very giving individuals- If you doubt that name any of the old guard- or new guard for that matter that are on the boards teaching AK. That probably says something about their character... at least it does to me.


:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

I agree totally that testing has it's place in the studio. I look at it as o.k. I've received this amount of material for the particular belt color or degree. After practicing for x amount of time it is then you look at yourself and your knowledge take the test & then see if you move on to the next set of requirements or stay where your at & keep practicing. I have never gone out of my way and bugged my instructor or insisted that I be tested for any belt no matter what level it was. I believe that is disrespectful to tell him/her when your ready for testing. (I believe there are ways to ask & not be disrespectful though). I actually told my instructor that I wanted to wait on a test just to get an instructor higher than he is to sit in and watch us test for our next belt. I didn't want to just test in front of him in fear of just passing or possibly failing. I personally wanted others there to actually know that I deserved to pass or fail. Either way I would accept the outcome. This is why I believe in a board testing that way it's not up to 1 individual but a series of people. If you pass then you know you deserved the rank.
I've only had the ability to train with 3 first generation students in the AK system. There's one guy that sticks out that has an awesome way of delivering the knowledge contained in AK and that's Mr. Conatser. I've trained for almost 13yrs. in various arts and have not seen anyone be able to pass on knowledge as well as he can. Mr. C is a great guy and all I can leave anybody with is if you get a chance to go to any seminar he is teaching at you'd better go.
Salute,
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Ronin]

Have you ever been tested by Mr. Conatser?

 

[jfarnsworth]

If your asking me- no I haven't.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Goldendragon7]

It would be a cakewalk!

:asian:

LOL otherwise you wouldn't be testing.:rofl:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Man, I don't know I've seen your requirement list!!!!!!!
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Goldendragon7]

Whadda ya want........ good grammer or good taste?

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Actually, excellent instruction. I'd rather be a white belt in the ikko for 5 yrs. rather than fly through a martial art system.
Jason Farnsworth

 

[Rainman]

Man, I don't know I've seen your requirement list!!!!!!!

Well since it has been brought up- What are some of your less than oridinary requirements for JI GD7? Waitin' for sumpin' juuuisay!

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

I like the idea that in the old days you got tossed a belt when the instructor thought you were ready. Personally I think it made the instructor more accountable for who had what rank.

I don't like tests. I don't do tests. When I am ready toss me the belt and we'll keep on working. I don't even wear a belt anymore because the art I am doing doesn't have them.

I don't have anyone I want to showcase what I can do nor do I have anyone that I want to show off for or impress, so if people think I'm gonna dance like some d@mn organ grinder's monkey they better think again.
:cuss:

 

[Rainman]

By those ideas you would invalidate all testing. Your issues seem to be with structure and authority therefore you did the right thing in finding an art/teacher that allows you your freedom. All the way through school I had deadbeats for teachers until I got to college then I had 2 or 3 who spoke to me in my language. It just doesn't work the way it should if someone is forcing you to shove a square peg in a round hole.

 

[Klondike93]

Originally posted by GouRonin

I like the idea that in the old days you got tossed a belt when the instructor thought you were ready. Personally I think it made the instructor more accountable for who had what rank.

I don't like tests. I don't do tests. When I am ready toss me the belt and we'll keep on working. I don't even wear a belt anymore because the art I am doing doesn't have them.

I don't have anyone I want to showcase what I can do nor do I have anyone that I want to show off for or impress, so if people think I'm gonna dance like some d@mn organ grinder's monkey they better think again.
:cuss:

Well Gou that depends. I was talking with my instructor and apparently there were some people that were trying to structure Systema with belts and ranks and so forth.

But I know your with Vlad so there are no belts, but there some out there trying.

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Rainman
By those ideas you would invalidate all testing. Your issues seem to be with structure and authority therefore you did the right thing in finding an art/teacher that allows you your freedom. All the way through school I had deadbeats for teachers until I got to college then I had 2 or 3 who spoke to me in my language. It just doesn't work the way it should if someone is forcing you to shove a square peg in a round hole.

I'll be the first to admit that I have issues with authority. That's a given. I actually like a system with a military style regimented syllabus. However, I dislike the misuse of authority by those who think they know what they are doing vs those who do.

I agree that when things "fit" then things work smoothly.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Klondike93
Well Gou that depends. I was talking with my instructor and apparently there were some people that were trying to structure Systema with belts and ranks and so forth. But I know your with Vlad so there are no belts, but there some out there trying.

Yeah, I heard about those guys. If they wanna do what they wanna do then it's no skin off my nose. I do what Vlad shows me and I run with his program because I like it.

 

[Klondike93]

From talking to my instructor Vlad's the best at it too. Although he did say Mikal is a tougher cookie than Vlad. He did say he's fun to train with, if you don't mind the bruises


:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Just how we define "testing" and another close term "Promotion". We might also ask who runs the family the Father (title) or why does business have a President.

To maintain order I think that the "rank" structure was invented...... although there could be a lot of discussion as to if it is really necessarily or not. I personally think it is, but with much discussion.

I agree with Doug in Part that when I think he is ready for a promotion..... and if he has done all that I want him to do... then he should get promoted..... question is..... should I just "throw him a belt" or "test" him. Well, we really could go back and forth and bring up a lot of good points pro and con on both sides. I have thought about and been involved in this for years. All I can say without going into detail is that both sides have merit. I actually do both at different times and with different people for different reasons.

"Some" of those reasons I either "Promote or Test" someone include...

attitude adjustment
self confidence
example
tradition
pressure/stress - control/conquest
camaraderie
humility
pride
ability

:asian:

 

[Rainman]

However, I dislike the misuse of authority by those who think they know what they are doing vs those who do.

That's a tough one. Some people do their homework and some don't. I think a lot of people have effective mixed up with efficient. It's a legitimate complaint and one that has been circulating for a long time:idunno:. I jumped off a building before I could fly and went splat. Had to go back with my tail between my legs... I suppose my teacher respected that and through countless hours of rolling tape, conversations that went to the wee hours of the morning and hitting the mat 7 days a week I know when someone has something offer and when they don't. It's a very small # that is why so many go out side of AK. They know they need and want more but have trouble finding it. Always issues of money, power, and whatever the human condition can throw into the mix.

 

[Goldendragon7]

if you are saying that many instructors do not know what they are doing in many cases...... I think it is a classic case of mirroring and modeling the wrong models or incomplete models.... That's why I have a specific reason "why" I do everything I do...... Mr. Parker used to ask me after I explained "what" I was doing.... "WHY" I guess It sunk in ....... so I wouldn't be caught with my pants down a 2nd time. LOL

:asian:

 

[Dave Simmons]

I tend to agree with Dennis....regarding individuals and their progression learning and demonstrated skills in Kenpo. In some cases a more "traditional" testing is appropiate. However I prefer to promote the student in recognition completing another step of learning. Students are "energized" with this approach and they are ready for new challenges.

Regards,

Dave Simmons:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

right students..... it can synergize your studio... yes I agree...........

:asian:

ps hey some good action going on your chat room too eh!