Technique Videos

[masherdong]

What about "game films" that the multi-million dollar football teams watch and study on a weekly basis. Don't they use these to develop a level of depth about the other teams execution? Didn't SGM Parker "discover" some of his greatest insights from studying films of his own motion? Bruce Lee did the same studying films of Muhammad Ali body movement(or so the urban legend goes). Boxers do this as well...

If the reason it won't work for the martial arts is because of the mystic powers that we possess then I suppose I'll understand why it won't work for us.

The Black Sheep, jb

Very good point.

 

[Doc]

What about "game films" that the multi-million dollar football teams watch and study on a weekly basis. Don't they use these to develop a level of depth about the other teams execution? Didn't SGM Parker "discover" some of his greatest insights from studying films of his own motion? Bruce Lee did the same studying films of Muhammad Ali body movement(or so the urban legend goes). Boxers do this as well...

If the reason it won't work for the martial arts is because of the mystic powers that we possess then I suppose I'll understand why it won't work for us. :asian:

The Black Sheep, jb

No it won't work because "game film" starts from the middle of the equation. The players are assumed to already have correct body mechanics, footwork, etc. and now they simply play out the possibilities of the "game" and its many rules, and execution mandates. Real life encounters and their defense must be examined with a clean sheet of paper with no assumptions, rules, or restrictions on either side. An open ended formula with infinite factors and numerous possible conclusions and the prize is - your life. Not a trophy, title, or a winning percentage. "Call, and I'll see your bet, and raise you your a$$."

 

[rmcrobertson]

Is anybody aware of any football players who are trying to learn how to play NFL-level football just by watching a film and trying what they see on their own?

 

[Kalicombat]

Robert,
There is no chance of a person watching a video and being able to play NFL-level football, and I am unaware of anyone that is trying to do so. However, I must say that the exact same football basics we all learned playing Pop Warner ball are the same exact football basics every player in the NFL is doing. I was a lineman, we were taught to fire out, off the ball, just like the NFL does, we were taught to stay low, under our opponents, just like the NFL does, and we were taught that where ever the head goes, the body will follow, just like the NFL does.
This analogy is not quite balanced in that, those elite athletes playing in the NFL, have alot more going for them then basic technique; years of performing the basics, incredible conditioning, a mix of natural ability, raw talent, and some pretty good steroids, errr....... nutritional supplements all have a major role in creating an NFL player.
Let me also say that while there are some very good kenpo videos out there, and some go in depth to provide the viewer with the why's and the how's of kenpo, a person with no fighting experience can watch all the videos, attend all the classes, and have the best live instructor in all of KENPODOM, and still not be able to defend him or her-self. For me, if I was going to have to face an opponent in a violent altercation, Id much rather face an ANYSTYLE grandmaster that has never been in an actual fight then Joe BarBrawler that goes toe-to-toe every weekend, and has done so for the last decade. The brawler has been hit, knows how to react, how to act, and has hit people. He may have pulled broken glass from his own face, wrapped his bloody hand with a dishrag, and had to fight his way home. The dojo guy, never realy having put any flesh to flesh, has no idea what to expect, how to handle getting hurt, not just hit, but seeing his own blood, his opponents blood, spitting out a tooth or two, or try to realign his chit after getting rocked. He might as well have learned all he has from videos, because unless he's been there, done that, the material is the same.

Just my opinion,
Gary C.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Thats funny. It would seem NFL players have to watch game vids all day. You know... actual games and mistakes made. If a teacher does a three hour vid on a tech, then I think some usefull information could be gotten,
Sean

 

[nor_cal_cyclist]

While I'm biased, since it my instructor made/sells this series, I like the set offered by Professor Scott Halsey:

www.kenpokaratedvds.com

This set goes from yellow thru 3rd brown, showing kata and techniques.

I also have the set on katas from GM Planas.

I've seen some of the others, but so far these are the "keepers"

 

[Flying Crane]

From the discussions I've seen in the forums, it seems to me that there is plenty of disagreement on exactly how a technique or a kata ought to be done. Doesn't look to me like there is any ultimate authority in kenpo that the entire kenpo community looks to, altho there are those who are the head of their own particular lineage.

That being the case, I am trying to understand why anyone would look to an outside source for this kind of information? If you have a teacher who you trust and who is skilled and knowledgeable, then get your information from him. Why look to a video made by someone else? That other person may be very good also, but he's also different, and what he does and how he does it may not mesh with the philosophy of your own school.

If you trust your teacher, stick with what he teaches you.

If you don't trust your teacher, then leave him and find another one.

Personally, I wouldn't spend my money collecting these videos.

 

[HKphooey]

I think it is great to see all the views out there, but my favorite would have to be the Tatum series of videos.

 

[HKphooey]

Hey Doc, not too shabby, yourself...

Was nice to see some older videos.

 

[Touch Of Death]

From the discussions I've seen in the forums, it seems to me that there is plenty of disagreement on exactly how a technique or a kata ought to be done. Doesn't look to me like there is any ultimate authority in kenpo that the entire kenpo community looks to, altho there are those who are the head of their own particular lineage.

That being the case, I am trying to understand why anyone would look to an outside source for this kind of information? If you have a teacher who you trust and who is skilled and knowledgeable, then get your information from him. Why look to a video made by someone else? That other person may be very good also, but he's also different, and what he does and how he does it may not mesh with the philosophy of your own school.

If you trust your teacher, stick with what he teaches you.

If you don't trust your teacher, then leave him and find another one.

Personally, I wouldn't spend my money collecting these videos.

Don't forget, a lot of people are introduced to kenpo in somebody's basement or in a simple conversation. If a good series is available from say... I dont know... WWW.Kenpo2000.com it wouldn't be a bad start. Perhaps this site has interested someone in kenpo. Its not a rule they have to start paying monthly dues to a Martial arts school. A simple series of vids is a perfectly acceptable way for a group of enthusiasts to further their study.
Sean

 

[Flying Crane]

Don't forget, a lot of people are introduced to kenpo in somebody's basement or in a simple conversation. If a good series is available from say... I dont know... WWW.Kenpo2000.com it wouldn't be a bad start. Perhaps this site has interested someone in kenpo. Its not a rule they have to start paying monthly dues to a Martial arts school. A simple series of vids is a perfectly acceptable way for a group of enthusiasts to further their study.
Sean

Not in my opinion.

If quality instruction is not available and the only option is video, I'd say spend your time doing something else.

 

[Twin Fist]

a lot CAN be learned from videos

but most likely only by someone with AT LEAST black belt level experience

without that BASE of knowledge, learning by video would be like.......well, lets put it this way:

Is a virgin a great lover because they watch a lot of porn?

 

[GBlues]

No it won't work because "game film" starts from the middle of the equation. The players are assumed to already have correct body mechanics, footwork, etc. and now they simply play out the possibilities of the "game" and its many rules, and execution mandates. Real life encounters and their defense must be examined with a clean sheet of paper with no assumptions, rules, or restrictions on either side. An open ended formula with infinite factors and numerous possible conclusions and the prize is - your life. Not a trophy, title, or a winning percentage. "Call, and I'll see your bet, and raise you your a$$."

I'll see your bet and raise you this. So what your telling me is that when I was a kid, I couldn't and shouldn't have been playing football. Because I didn't have a coach right there to train me how to throw a football, or catch a football, or anything else that relates to football. Hm.... I guess I was wrong to want to go outside and have some fun with the neighbor kids. I guess all those football games I watched didn't teach me anything? I learned the rules, I learned the basics of what's going on. Yet, by your analogy because I never went pro, and had little desire to, I should not have been playing football out in the street. Why? The truth is I learned how to play football from watching t.v., then I went outside and put into practice what I had seen. Was I good? No, but I made a touchdown every now and then. Did I enjoy it, absolutely.

THe same is true with many sports. You see a guy make a free throw, or dunk a basketball, and you say to yourself, "Hey, dad I want to play basketball, can we get one.?" Or you go with the neighbor kids down to the basketball courts and you play with them. Yes, actual experience is always better, but you learn first by watching, and second by doing. You can not say, ( well you can but it doesn't make it true), that you can't learn from a video. Is somebody ever going to be a Bruce Lee from a video? Probably not. If he practices what he sees and learns the material, will he be able to protect himself? Better than he did before, for sure. Perhaps even walk away, unscathed because of those videos. You don't know. The reality is, there may never be another Bruce Lee in our lifetimes. They don't come around very often. Guys like Bruce Lee, and Myamoto Musashi, are an anomoly. They are special individuals that give us a glimpse of the possibilities of what we can do with our bodies.

Besides all of that not everyone wants to be a Bruce Lee, or Chuck Norris, or Muhamid Ali. They just want to know that they can protect themselves agianst the average everyday jerk off! Just my opinion take it for what you will, but absolutely you can, and many people do learn from videos. Shoot, that's how you learned martial arts to begin with. You watch your instructor do it, and then mimick what he does to the best of your abilities. That's it, that's all. You later learn to make the style your own the longer that you train. Guys my age, 30 and younger, got our very first glimpse at martial arts through the movies. We then got our buddies together, and said, " Hey let's play fight!", or at least me and my buddies did

No difference between now and then.

 

[Doc]

I'll see your bet and raise you this. So what your telling me is that when I was a kid, I couldn't and shouldn't have been playing football. Because I didn't have a coach right there to train me how to throw a football, or catch a football, or anything else that relates to football. Hm.... I guess I was wrong to want to go outside and have some fun with the neighbor kids. I guess all those football games I watched didn't teach me anything? I learned the rules, I learned the basics of what's going on. Yet, by your analogy because I never went pro, and had little desire to, I should not have been playing football out in the street. Why? The truth is I learned how to play football from watching t.v., then I went outside and put into practice what I had seen. Was I good? No, but I made a touchdown every now and then. Did I enjoy it, absolutely.

THe same is true with many sports. You see a guy make a free throw, or dunk a basketball, and you say to yourself, "Hey, dad I want to play basketball, can we get one.?" Or you go with the neighbor kids down to the basketball courts and you play with them. Yes, actual experience is always better, but you learn first by watching, and second by doing. You can not say, ( well you can but it doesn't make it true), that you can't learn from a video. Is somebody ever going to be a Bruce Lee from a video? Probably not. If he practices what he sees and learns the material, will he be able to protect himself? Better than he did before, for sure. Perhaps even walk away, unscathed because of those videos. You don't know. The reality is, there may never be another Bruce Lee in our lifetimes. They don't come around very often. Guys like Bruce Lee, and Myamoto Musashi, are an anomoly. They are special individuals that give us a glimpse of the possibilities of what we can do with our bodies.

Besides all of that not everyone wants to be a Bruce Lee, or Chuck Norris, or Muhamid Ali. They just want to know that they can protect themselves agianst the average everyday jerk off! Just my opinion take it for what you will, but absolutely you can, and many people do learn from videos. Shoot, that's how you learned martial arts to begin with. You watch your instructor do it, and then mimick what he does to the best of your abilities. That's it, that's all. You later learn to make the style your own the longer that you train. Guys my age, 30 and younger, got our very first glimpse at martial arts through the movies. We then got our buddies together, and said, " Hey let's play fight!", or at least me and my buddies did

No difference between now and then.

No sir, I'm telling you "playing sports games" is not how you learn to defend your life whether child or adult. You are naive in your assessment as a child still. No most don't want to be ALi because they can't, but most would like to be competent in a confrontation, of which video cannot teach all of the dynamics and variables. I "played" war as a child, along with "cowboys and indians," "cops and robbers," and a host of other activities. And while I may have simulated all forms of physical combat, having the interest and playing at it, did nothing to prepare me for reality.

In fact, it may be detrimental for most by giving them the false sense of security that they could do it, and that it wasn't very hard. Video study is for experts, and those that don't know any better. No one sells video for the sake of "familiarity." Everyone tells you how easy it is, and how you can learn by video with just a "little guidance." This is pure exploitation of the ignorant and the self-entitled. Also known as "capitalism." Remember the informercial for "Taebo?" It's called "salesmanship," and its all about caveat emptor. Or as Mr. Parker used to say, "Just cause you been to the rifle range, it don't make you a veteran."

 

[GBlues]

No sir, I'm telling you "playing sports games" is not how you learn to defend your life whether child or adult. You are naive in your assessment as a child still. No most don't want to be ALi because they can't, but most would like to be competent in a confrontation, of which video cannot teach all of the dynamics and variables. I "played" war as a child, along with "cowboys and indians," "cops and robbers," and a host of other activities. And while I may have simulated all forms of physical combat, having the interest and playing at it, did nothing to prepare me for reality.

In fact, it may be detrimental for most by giving them the false sense of security that they could do it, and that it wasn't very hard. Video study is for experts, and those that don't know any better. No one sells video for the sake of "familiarity." Everyone tells you how easy it is, and how you can learn by video with just a "little guidance." This is pure exploitation of the ignorant and the self-entitled. Also known as "capitalism." Remember the informercial for "Taebo?" It's called "salesmanship," and its all about caveat emptor. Or as Mr. Parker used to say, "Just cause you been to the rifle range, it don't make you a veteran."

Your absolutely right just because you have been to the rifle range it does not make you a veteran. But it does make you better prepared than the guy that never went to the rifle range. My personal opinion is any training is better than none. When that guy attacks you with a stick, rock, knife, barehands any TRAINING is better than curling into a ball getting knifed in the back, period. If all you can do is curl into a ball, then you'd of been better off getting the Taebo tapes, at least you'd learn some kind of punch or kick, something. I mean dam, just get real good at running! I mean why consider any kind of training at all whatsoever? Just learn to run real fast, for long distances, I mean hell when I was a kid it saved my *** more than once, and a good run beats a bad stand anyday. Course then again just the play fights me and my buddies had growing up saved my *** more than once also. It ain't whatcha know, or how much of it, it's how good you are at it, that matters. But I digress since, "playing sports games" can't save your life, I guess you shouldn't take wrestling or bjj either. Right?

I mean shoot, in the right situation, football very well could save your life. You get backed into a corner, and nowhere to go but threw the guys, you might be able to blast threw them depending on talent, strength, explosiveness, and be able to do what? RUN AWAY! That's what your saying, is that if you can't make it to some kind of a dojo, that they shouldn't make an attempt at anything, because nothing but personal live instruction is going to work. So why don't you just say this, "Hey look man this is what you need to do, go down to the local shoe store and buy the best pair of running shoes that you can get, and whenever someone tries to hurt you just turn and run, cause videos are going to cause more trouble than good." How does that sound? Pretty discouraging huh. I think so.

A good motto that I live by is this, " When things break, or go bad, do something. Even if it's the wrong thing, do something! Cause if you don't it's definitely going to get worse!"Damn sure can't get better or change if you sit around with your finger up your hoo-hoo " Wise words from a wise man I learned to respect for his knowledge of life, and of drilling. Something to think about when you say it can't be done. Those are the guys that never get anything done. At one time people said, "We'll never set foot on the moon." But one guy somewhere's said, " I'll find a way", and he did.
Only children say, " It can't be done, you can't do it. " a man turns around and says, " Watch me do it!" and he does.

*ding* and he had a thought and it became wisdom. The wisdom became knowledge. The knowledge became insight. The insight became the possibilities. The possibilities became endless, and nothing was impossible anymore.:asian:

 

[Doc]

Your absolutely right just because you have been to the rifle range it does not make you a veteran. But it does make you better prepared than the guy that never went to the rifle range. My personal opinion is any training is better than none. When that guy attacks you with a stick, rock, knife, barehands any TRAINING is better than curling into a ball getting knifed in the back, period. If all you can do is curl into a ball, then you'd of been better off getting the Taebo tapes, at least you'd learn some kind of punch or kick, something. I mean dam, just get real good at running! I mean why consider any kind of training at all whatsoever? Just learn to run real fast, for long distances, I mean hell when I was a kid it saved my *** more than once, and a good run beats a bad stand anyday. Course then again just the play fights me and my buddies had growing up saved my *** more than once also. It ain't whatcha know, or how much of it, it's how good you are at it, that matters. But I digress since, "playing sports games" can't save your life, I guess you shouldn't take wrestling or bjj either. Right?

I mean shoot, in the right situation, football very well could save your life. You get backed into a corner, and nowhere to go but threw the guys, you might be able to blast threw them depending on talent, strength, explosiveness, and be able to do what? RUN AWAY! That's what your saying, is that if you can't make it to some kind of a dojo, that they shouldn't make an attempt at anything, because nothing but personal live instruction is going to work. So why don't you just say this, "Hey look man this is what you need to do, go down to the local shoe store and buy the best pair of running shoes that you can get, and whenever someone tries to hurt you just turn and run, cause videos are going to cause more trouble than good." How does that sound? Pretty discouraging huh. I think so.

A good motto that I live by is this, " When things break, or go bad, do something. Even if it's the wrong thing, do something! Cause if you don't it's definitely going to get worse!"Damn sure can't get better or change if you sit around with your finger up your hoo-hoo " Wise words from a wise man I learned to respect for his knowledge of life, and of drilling. Something to think about when you say it can't be done. Those are the guys that never get anything done. At one time people said, "We'll never set foot on the moon." But one guy somewhere's said, " I'll find a way", and he did.
Only children say, " It can't be done, you can't do it. " a man turns around and says, " Watch me do it!" and he does.

*ding* and he had a thought and it became wisdom. The wisdom became knowledge. The knowledge became insight. The insight became the possibilities. The possibilities became endless, and nothing was impossible anymore.:asian:

The problem is, people do what they want, not what they need. They want to learn a particular art or style of self-defense that is not conveniently located geographically, when they would be better off going to the school reasonably close, no matter what he style. Instead they take the video version of what they want. In this case its not "something is better than nothing," it's "what I want instead of what I don't want," even if what I don't want is better. I hear it all the time. "But, there isn't a Kenpo school close to me." Only kenpo gives belts by video. At least the others just put it out there.

 

[MJS]

Not in my opinion.

If quality instruction is not available and the only option is video, I'd say spend your time doing something else.

I 2nd that statement!!

 

[GBlues]

The problem is, people do what they want, not what they need. They want to learn a particular art or style of self-defense that is not conveniently located geographically, when they would be better off going to the school reasonably close, no matter what he style. Instead they take the video version of what they want. In this case its not "something is better than nothing," it's "what I want instead of what I don't want," even if what I don't want is better. I hear it all the time. "But, there isn't a Kenpo school close to me." Only kenpo gives belts by video. At least the others just put it out there.

True,true.....never thought of that.

 

[Kenpo17]

Yes, Mr. Planas's forms videos have really helped me out, especially his form 4 video, that if I am not mistaken is still on Youtube. I also have the technique videos from the WKKA, that can be ordered a wkka.org. Mr. Joe Palanzo, and his son Mr. Russel Palanzo do those videos. They are really helpful, they do each technique slow twice, then do it in full blast once.